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Kiang
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#1 Posted: Tue Sep 27th, 2005 08:20 pm |
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I had suggested this on HFC months ago but got a poor response and abandoned the idea.
In the current environment perhaps this may be of some value.
I am ofcourse suggesting a test - another one.
I will prepare three mains cables one with the standard kettle lead, the second an agreed aftermarket cable and the third a design made by me.
I am including the third so that it is not a simple A-B comparison.
All cables will be made to look nearly identical and I will post it to an independent adjudicator who will label the cables as A,B OR C as per their descretion.
This info will be released on completion of the trial.
The set of cables are posted to volunteers (both pro and against) to try for a week in their home environment and to finally fill out an e-mail questionaire at the end.
The volunteer then posts them on to the next person bearing the postage costs.
We can do this till we get a number that is satisfactory(12-20 perhaps).
I or someone else can compile the results - I may even be able to get a statistician to have a look at it if you like.
This is an opportunity for skeptics and cable believers to trully report what they felt.
All reports will be anonymous, unless a volunteer has indicated otherwise.
If keen, we can go for it and volunteer numbers will be counted until the closing date which I have arbitarily placed as monday 03/10/05.
If we do not get in excess of 12 volunteers by monday - This idea I think should be abandoned.
Looking forward to hearing from you all. Suggestions welcome.
Last edited on Tue Sep 27th, 2005 09:07 pm by Kiang
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meninblack
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#2 Posted: Tue Sep 27th, 2005 08:57 pm |
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I'm up for it. 
(01/10/05 is this Saturday, BTW)
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Kiang
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#3 Posted: Tue Sep 27th, 2005 09:07 pm |
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edited
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wolfgang
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#4 Posted: Tue Sep 27th, 2005 10:54 pm |
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I think this would be very interesting. One further potential volunteer. The difficult with time and unfamiliar rooms/toys could be avoided by your idea. However, it would be also useful to know what you are trying to establish then we could provide further suggestions of the constructive kind . For example, when we did this in Zerogain the postage cost could easily be shared out by each person by paying for passing it to the next person. Are you trying to find out whether your design are different/better then standard and branded cables for example?
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purplepleaser
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#5 Posted: Tue Sep 27th, 2005 10:58 pm |
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Hi Kiang, I will do the test if you are low on numbers. In my little system I am using the power cables that came with my Sugden gear.I also use a cheap surge protected six way mains block. The only problem is that I do not have the experience of testing things in my system. I have limited experience of shop, home demo's. This may put you of including me in the test.Just thought i would offer my ears.
Lee
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Kiang
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#6 Posted: Tue Sep 27th, 2005 11:08 pm |
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wolfgang wrote: I think this would be very interesting. One further potential volunteer. The difficult with time and unfamiliar rooms/toys could be avoided by your idea. However, it would be also useful to know what you are trying to establish then we could provide further suggestions of the constructive kind . For example, when we did this in Zerogain the postage cost could easily be shared out by each person by paying for passing it to the next person. Are you trying to find out whether your design are different/better then standard and branded cables for example?
The third cable (mine) is just introduced to eliminate the "one or the other " choice which some members raised concerns about in mosfets test.
It could be just any cable as far as the test is concerned - but must be different from the other two.
If it turns out that it happens to be the best of the lot it would only mean it is better than the kettle lead and the aftermarket lead used - not the best mains lead around;)
I don't own any aftermarket leads so perhaps someone could supply a "yello " or something - anyway I don't think that will be a problem.
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Kiang
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#7 Posted: Tue Sep 27th, 2005 11:15 pm |
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purplepleaser wrote: Hi Kiang, I will do the test if you are low on numbers. In my little system I am using the power cables that came with my Sugden gear.I also use a cheap surge protected six way mains block. The only problem is that I do not have the experience of testing things in my system. I have limited experience of shop, home demo's. This may put you of including me in the test.Just thought i would offer my ears.
Lee
Quite the contrary - your ears matter.
The type of system does not matter as far as the test is concerned as well.
Keep everything the same as you would otherwise - just replace your current lead for the test lead.
Listen at your leisure, concur with other members in the household if you want to before you fill the form - just as we would normally do in deciding on a cable purchase.
The idea is that the test should be in a real life scenario - the only thing is that all three cables will look the same, feel the same and hopefully weigh the same if I can help it.
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purplepleaser
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#8 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2005 12:09 am |
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Hi kiang, I have made a comment on the other power cable test. It looks as if they used different music to test different cables.I can not understand this as some tracks will sound loader,more powerful, completely different. I suggest that you could compile a cdr of say 5 tracks of different genres of music and use this as the reference disc. This then makes it a more fair test, as someboby may listen to classical then the next person listens to death metal and so on. With a controlled test disc it would make it more conclusive. I know everybodys system is different but this make it a better test.
I hope this make some kind of sense to you.
lee
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GaryG
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#9 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2005 12:11 am |
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Count me in.
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Kiang
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#10 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2005 12:30 am |
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Thanks guys.
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mosfet
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#11 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2005 01:00 am |
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Has my support Kiang (but not my participation at the mo)
Here are my suggestions (apologies if this is repeating anything already said)
Three cables, two of which must be standard IEC mains cables. This will give the control results - as with the control test in the WigWam test and necessary for the same reasons.
The third cable to be an undisclosed aftermarket power cable. By disclosing on the forum the identity of the aftermarket power cable you introduce bias to the listener depending on their existing opinion (whatever it may be) regarding that power cable.
Including listeners of a “sceptical” nature (word used advisedly) in the trial will only demonstrate existence of negative bias on the part of the listener rather than give statistically useful results. It may however be more ‘welcoming’ to all.
Cables could be hidden in plastic conduit (like RA uses) and packed with cotton wool with plenty of epoxy to seal the ends and plugs.
You could label the cables yourself and use a freebie email account to send a dated email on commencement of the trial detailing which cable is which. The date on the email can’t be altered (I think?).
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Effem
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#12 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2005 09:34 am |
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| Put me down on the list
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Gaffer
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#13 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2005 11:07 am |
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Hi.
I'm sorry i missed the the last so I'm definitely up for this.
Which component do we use? I suggest the front end (most of us have cd players)......but then I have little choice as I own a valve amp and don't relish continually plugging and un-plugging it what with valves an all.
Re:music.....I think it doesn't matter which tracks you listen to, as long as you are very very familiar with it and are therefore more liable to pick up if you hear/do not hear any difference. If we have 5 "standard" tracks, they could be ones some have never heard before, and though I may pick up a difference, I think familiarity with the track will help here. Then again, if there is a difference, we should pick it up no matter what we listen too.....
........could you clarify what we will be doing in this case?
The testing: Do we state wether we hear a difference and then write down "for better or worse, if answered yes" (easy to do) or try and figure out wether we hear an improvement (?more subjective therefore less suitable)
PS I'm firmly on the fence with this issue: Owning no aftermarket mains leads, thinking that my own lead (basically a kettle lead with rf stoppers added) makes ?no difference, but hearing a difference with my isoplug.....so I'm open to the idea at least......this test would be quite good I thinkLast edited on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 11:14 am by Gaffer
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ditton
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#14 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2005 11:27 am |
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count me in also.
I've just made long post in associated thread,
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum1/1104-3.html
key point here are the matter of setting - I like the idea of getting a spread of settings, but we should acknowldge that the setting/judge is confounded - but maybe that's OK.
also, the choice of what component to apply 'experimental cable', and against what cable to test it.
my dac is reputedly well protected against mains grunge, but my power amp reputedly is not, making the latter the better test apparatus I would think. perhaps you should either direct us or leave us to choose and you factor that in for the analysis.
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earl of sodbury
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#15 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2005 12:22 pm |
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Kiang, thank for taking the initiative on this - please count me in.
IMO it will be necessary to ensure that everything is tamper-proof and tamper-evident to make the results as widely acceptable as possible.
churz, eofs
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Kiang
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#16 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2005 03:27 pm |
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Excellent response guys - keep em coming.
7 SO FAR
I will take all suggestions on board and present a final scenario for approval .
Photos of cables and the masking used will be taken and presented at the end.
It will be an idea if members could suggest cables that could be used , I will randomly pick a cable from the lot that is representative of the majority to use as the aftermarket lead.
This gives me time to plan a way of masking the cables that will be foolproof.
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analoguekid
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#17 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2005 03:37 pm |
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| I'd love to join in, but won't for two reasons, I still ave Franks mains cable, and not had time to test it (this weekend Frank honest) so I'd likely take too long before sending on, perhaps you could tag me on at the end, and us Glasgowish boys could have a go whilst it's up here.
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purplepleaser
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#18 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2005 07:08 pm |
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Gaffer74 wrote:
Re:music.....I think it doesn't matter which tracks you listen to, as long as you are very very familiar with it and are therefore more liable to pick up if you hear/do not hear any difference. If we have 5 "standard" tracks, they could be ones some have never heard before, and though I may pick up a difference, I think familiarity with the track will help here. Then again, if there is a difference, we should pick it up no matter what we listen too.....
........could you clarify what we will be doing in this case?
I only mentioned about having a test disc due to the fact of the amont of whinging done over the last cable test.
Having a test disc will make the test more accurate. Yes people may not of heard the music before but if people can moan about how a room sounded shit at a hifi show and then can say its because of the speakers or amps etc.Surley they would be able to test power cables using a set of songs.
There is nothing stopping people testing the power leads with music they are very familiar with but for the test to be fair,and to collect more accurate information you need people to listen to the same music.
People will say that the systems used are different but that will make it interesting as some are worth a grand and others run into tens of thousands. It may be the ones who have spent the most money that are most worried about the test..
The results could be set out to show if the testers heard a difference on the test cdr and also state that they also heard a difference on music that they use everyday.
It is alright making sure the cables look,feel the same but some will argue about this aswell. possibly nothing better else to due.
It may well sound that I am moaning as well but you have to cover all the bases and the music is one of the bases and it makes it a more complete test.
Lee
P.s I have nothing loose and a lot to gain from taking part in a test of this sort. I have thought and mentioned about upgrading power cables so this will be very interesting to me.I may not have the experience of many demos at home,hifi shops or even hifi shows.This may be my advantage or disadvantage.I will wait and see or hear as the case will be.
Last edited on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 07:17 pm by purplepleaser
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supercapman
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#19 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2005 07:27 pm |
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Kiang you can count me in but as Gaffer74 mentioned I too have a valve amp and would prefer to do the dem on the CD player.Cheers SCM.
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rockmeister
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#20 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2005 07:28 pm |
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| Kiang... good idea, and as an open minded sort of chap with no previous experience of mains cable changes I'd love to try it out please. I agree with the Gaffer... our own music will show the differences better, otherwise, count me in.
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