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  1. #1
    Leper Wammer AmDismal's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    There are loads of potential tests that could be done. Rather than add lots of noise to the current cable test thread, which is dedicated to performing a particular test, I suggest that ideas for further tests be added here.

    If we discuss the kinds of tests we might want, and what they might achieve, we can then look at how, where and when they could be done - again that could be another thread. Let's get ideas flowing and then sort out the practicalities.

    My initial ideas:

    Zanash, a cable manufacturer, has offered to make cables that differ only in certain factors - maybe we could consider different materials same geometry, different geometry with same materials, shielding versus unshielded, different plugs only?

    Jerry is a cable believer and mentioned about a blind test that he passed 100%. I'd be interested in seeing the results of a test of his favourite foo cable versus a budget or freebie one. 'Challenge' tests like this I would like to be on his equipment, or at least in some system where the listeners (auditors?) can't easily challenge the resolution of the test equipment.

    We could also try tests where one cable is seriously crippled, so the differences should (?) be obvious. How many people still can't tell differences in that case? That would be good to show the impact of 'test pressure'.

    Any others? I'm thinking really mains cables here, as this is one of the most contentious areas, although interconnects and speaker cables would also be fun

    We should also discuss methodologies - Mibby seems to be the right person here, given his job, and seems to have come up with something pretty sensible to start with. However, we should consider other ways of doing the tests.
    Compression drivers twerk my eardrums

  2. #2
    Super Wammer JANDL100's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    AmDismal wrote:
    Jerry is a cable believer and mentioned about a blind test that he passed 100%.
    A blind CDP test I passed 100%. A blind cable test I failed 100% - I don't thinkI even reached a random guess score, I would have done better tossing a coin.


    Life's too short for boring hifi!

  3. #3
    Wammer
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    Post imported post

    AmDismal wrote:
    Zanash, a cable manufacturer, has offered to make cables that differ only in certain factors - maybe we could consider different materials same geometry, different geometry with same materials, shielding versus unshielded, different plugs only?

    .
    A couple of questions...........


    1. Given the total bollocks he has posted in some threads, how would you prove and be sure what he claimed to have built into the cables was fact ?

    2. He is banned

  4. #4
    Founding Wammer Kiang's Avatar
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    Was wondering.... How about a cable test for the skeptics?

    One could design a cable (interconnect) which is measurably different to a control cable eg: capacitance etcsuch that there is a measurable change in some parameter (SPL, distortion etc).

    So scientifically - they should hear a difference

    Then see if the cable skeptic can pick the one out - proof that the "skeptic" has a system and the resolution ability to discern differences .





  5. #5
    Moderator meninblack's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    Kiang wrote:
    Was wondering.... How about a cable test for the skeptics?

    One could design a cable (interconnect) which is measurably different to a control cable eg: capacitance etcsuch that there is a measurable change in some parameter (SPL, distortion etc).

    So scientifically - they should hear a difference

    Then see if the cable skeptic can pick the one out - proof that the "skeptic" has a system and the resolution ability to discern differences .



    LOL, just make it twice as long. That would give you a very clear and measurable difference. Do you think it would be audible?


  6. #6
    Founding Wammer Kiang's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    meninblack wrote:
    Kiang wrote:
    Was wondering.... How about a cable test for the skeptics?


    LOL, just make it twice as long. That would give you a very clear and measurable difference. Do you think it would be audible?
    For EG: 1db change should be just audible where loudness is concerned.
    So if one cannot hear the difference - it only means that person cannot hear it when the vast majority of humans do (which is what the db scale is based upon albeit in a slightly younger group "I think")


  7. #7
    Moderator meninblack's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    Kiang wrote:
    For EG: 1db change should be just audible where loudness is concerned.
    So if one cannot hear the difference - it only means that person cannot hear it when the vast majority of humans do (which is what the db scale is based upon albeit in a slightly younger group "I think")
    Are you chumpy? What have you done with kiang?

  8. #8
    Founding Wammer Kiang's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    meninblack wrote:
    Kiang wrote:
    For EG: 1db change should be just audible where loudness is concerned.
    So if one cannot hear the difference - it only means that person cannot hear it when the vast majority of humans do (which is what the db scale is based upon albeit in a slightly younger group "I think")
    Are you chumpy? What have you done with kiang?
    he-he

  9. #9
    Wammer mosfet's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    Kiang wrote:
    meninblack wrote:
    Kiang wrote:
    Was wondering.... How about a cable test for the skeptics?


    LOL, just make it twice as long. That would give you a very clear and measurable difference. Do you think it would be audible?
    For EG: 1db change should be just audible where loudness is concerned.
    So if one cannot hear the difference - it only means that person cannot hear it when the vast majority of humans do (which is what the db scale is based upon albeit in a slightly younger group "I think")
    Can I ask is it all people of a sceptical disposition who are a bit deaf, or just those who happen to own a hifi system?

    After we have done this test I suggest an experiment to see if “believers” (in hifi foo or whatever) all have protruding foreheads.

    I suspect they do.



  10. #10
    Founding Wammer Kiang's Avatar
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    mosfet wrote:
    Can I ask is it all people of a sceptical disposition who are a bit deaf, or just those who happen to own a hifi system?

    We are not talking about deafness here.Hearing is far more complex .
    Intensity of sound and loudness are two different things.
    With a change in intensity ,The same sound will not be percieved to have the same degree of loudness by all individuals - this is "subjective" hence not measurable but one cannot deny that it exists.
    Similarly if one really wants to investigate this cable phenomenon , one must be open to the possibility that some changes though measurable may not be percieved as such by some people.Again this has nothing to do with deafness.
    If such was the case it is possible that it would be perfectly rational to take a skeptical view of the existence of the "cable" phenomenon(if that was what cables did- we don't know).
    The decibel scale like many studies is based on the hearing abilities of a representative group in a population and though perfectly fine for purposes of study is not inclusive of all groups in a population . This is why we have a "normal hearing range" - not absolute levels.
    As regards the protruding foreheads etc - I did not think it was useful to the discussion , hence no comment.
    a bit basic but useful read


  11. #11
    Wammer mosfet's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    Similarly if one really wants to investigate this cable phenomenon , one must be open to the possibility that some changes though measurable may not be percieved as such by some people.
    You didn’t answer my question. I’ll assume you meant anyone who doesn’t hear differences in cables rather than anyone of a sceptical disposition when you refer to a test for “skeptics”. Besides many sceptics do hear differences with some cables, myself included.

    Those who do not hear differences - say between different metals - do tend towards sceptical thought. This is true. Assuming there are differences to be heard the far more likely explanation is going to be psychology not physiology. Just as it is with “believers”.



  12. #12
    Super Wammer JANDL100's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    mosfet wrote:
    many sceptics do hear differences with some cables, myself included.
    Interesting.

    Would you care to elucidate? (sorry Adam, I know thismay beoff-topic ... but then again maybe it isn't)
    Life's too short for boring hifi!

  13. #13
    Wammer mosfet's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    I could hear the difference between PTFE equipment wire (the same stuff Chord have been re-badging for years) used as ‘speaker cable versus my regular 2.5mm Sommer ‘speaker cable.

    This was due to the large difference in DCR. Or I was imagining it!



  14. #14
    Super Wammer JANDL100's Avatar
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    mosfet wrote:
    I could hear the difference between PTFE equipment wire (the same stuff Chord have been re-badging for years) used as ‘speaker cable versus my regular 2.5mm Sommer ‘speaker cable.

    This was due to the large difference in DCR. Or I was imagining it!
    And perhaps also the Nordost high pass filters, oops,I mean cables?
    Life's too short for boring hifi!

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