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  1. #1
    Super Wammer paulf-2007's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    I bought these on ebay and they arrived today from Hong Kong. They look very good and if weight is anything to go by are good quality too. I bought them with the intention of bi amping at some stage and wanted to know if there will be any impedence or voltage issues splitting the signal between two amps. I would be connecting these to my pre out and then taking two pairs of interconnects to two amps. Any thoughts?
    Mark levinson red rose rosebud II, J Soundlabs 300B, denon 1930 DVD/sacd, garrard 401, collaro 2010, lenco, yaqin phono, partridge step up, technics direct drive top load cassette, Nigel's speed controller, leema splx10

  2. #2
    Founding Wammer SSM's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    Splitters from different manufacturers may vary in design and so it is not possible to tell you for sure if you will achieve your biamping aims with those.

    A colleague with a two-input valve amp purchased two pairs of splitters to facilitate the connection of more sources to the amp. He intended to connect two sources to one input simultaneously and use one source while the other was switched off. Lo... the signal was softened as it was also being routed to the second (unswitched) source.

    There may be a possibility that those in-coming splitters may do the same to your pre-outs, but you have my best wishes that that will not be the case.

    cheerSS



    CONRAD-JOHNSON ET3SE & HD3, ICON AUDIO LA4 MKIII > NAIM NAP 100
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    TANNOY PRECISION 6.2, ELAC BS244, ATC SCM11, S3/5R, DM 2/6, XERO, Q 2020i

  3. #3
    Too much time on my hands SergeAuckland's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    paulf-2007 wrote:
    I bought these on ebay and they arrived today from Hong Kong. They look very good and if weight is anything to go by are good quality too. I bought them with the intention of bi amping at some stage and wanted to know if there will be any impedence or voltage issues splitting the signal between two amps. I would be connecting these to my pre out and then taking two pairs of interconnects to two amps. Any thoughts?
    Provided your pre-amp has a lowish output impedance (say below 1kohm) and your power amps have an input impedance of greater than 10kohms, there should be no problem with impedance.

    Assuming your power amps are identical, there will be no problem with input sensitivities. Both power amps must be switched on, or it is possible that you get the effect previously noted, that the "off" amplifier has a very low input impedance and effectively shorts out the working input.

    The question I have to ask though, is why biamp? There's no evidence whatsoever that it has any beneficial effect, but by all means prove this for yourself.



    S.

  4. #4
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    Post imported post

    SergeAuckland wrote:
    paulf-2007 wrote:
    I bought these on ebay and they arrived today from Hong Kong. They look very good and if weight is anything to go by are good quality too. I bought them with the intention of bi amping at some stage and wanted to know if there will be any impedence or voltage issues splitting the signal between two amps. I would be connecting these to my pre out and then taking two pairs of interconnects to two amps. Any thoughts?
    Provided your pre-amp has a lowish output impedance (say below 1kohm) and your power amps have an input impedance of greater than 10kohms, there should be no problem with impedance.

    Assuming your power amps are identical, there will be no problem with input sensitivities. Both power amps must be switched on, or it is possible that you get the effect previously noted, that the "off" amplifier has a very low input impedance and effectively shorts out the working input.

    The question I have to ask though, is why biamp? There's no evidence whatsoever that it has any beneficial effect, but by all means prove this for yourself.



    S.
    Subjective opinion IMO should be regarded as a form of evidence. Not everything is measurable yet, but may become so once we understand the subject better and improve our methodolgy accordingly. If you say it's merely someones imagination - well, AFAIK you can't measure that either
    bleeps for breakfast

  5. #5
    Super Wammer paulf-2007's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    plug3 wrote:
    SergeAuckland wrote:
    paulf-2007 wrote:
    I bought these on ebay and they arrived today from Hong Kong. They look very good and if weight is anything to go by are good quality too. I bought them with the intention of bi amping at some stage and wanted to know if there will be any impedence or voltage issues splitting the signal between two amps. I would be connecting these to my pre out and then taking two pairs of interconnects to two amps. Any thoughts?
    Provided your pre-amp has a lowish output impedance (say below 1kohm) and your power amps have an input impedance of greater than 10kohms, there should be no problem with impedance.

    Assuming your power amps are identical, there will be no problem with input sensitivities. Both power amps must be switched on, or it is possible that you get the effect previously noted, that the "off" amplifier has a very low input impedance and effectively shorts out the working input.

    The question I have to ask though, is why biamp? There's no evidence whatsoever that it has any beneficial effect, but by all means prove this for yourself.



    S.
    Subjective opinion IMO should be regarded as a form of evidence. Not everything is measurable yet, but may become so once we understand the subject better and improve our methodolgy accordingly. If you say it's merely someones imagination - well, AFAIK you can't measure that either

    There's no evidence whatsoever that it has any beneficial effect,

    The word " effect" when related to music production means something that alters the sound produced. Whether that is beneficial is a matter of opinion.

    My idea is to be able to control the amount of bass produced through a seperate amp or active speakers with crossover. Maybe this is moving away from a transparent " natural " sound but what is that anyway, some time back I asked what system would produce the sound from the studio as the engineer intended and got a load of bollocks from various wammers. ( No disrespect intended )Some said that reproducing the sound of a live concert was what they wanted, thats fine if you happened to go to the live concert and liked what you heard. That may work with classical because it should be replicated every time unless the conductor changes the arrangement drastically. But some live acts are not a patch on the recording. Don't get me wrong I'm not looking for the sort of bass that comes from a vauxhall corsa on saturday night with some chav at the wheel, I am reasonably satisfied with the varied amount of bass that come from my small bass reflex speakersbut want to try different things. Maybe my speakers are replicating what came fom the studio because of the various tones and amount of bass they produce, I really have no way of knowing.

    Maybe what I should do is wait until I move to France, hopefully early next year, ok deserting the sinking ship I hear you saying, where I will have a dedicated room properly treated as a starting point. I believe this is the only way forward and not all this box swapping. I'm sure you all have very competant kit that would sound spot on the right room. I think this was evident at the heathrow show where only ABC audio's room sounded right to me.

    Mark levinson red rose rosebud II, J Soundlabs 300B, denon 1930 DVD/sacd, garrard 401, collaro 2010, lenco, yaqin phono, partridge step up, technics direct drive top load cassette, Nigel's speed controller, leema splx10

  6. #6
    Too much time on my hands SergeAuckland's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    paulf-2007 wrote:
    plug3 wrote:
    SergeAuckland wrote:
    paulf-2007 wrote:
    I bought these on ebay and they arrived today from Hong Kong. They look very good and if weight is anything to go by are good quality too. I bought them with the intention of bi amping at some stage and wanted to know if there will be any impedence or voltage issues splitting the signal between two amps. I would be connecting these to my pre out and then taking two pairs of interconnects to two amps. Any thoughts?
    Provided your pre-amp has a lowish output impedance (say below 1kohm) and your power amps have an input impedance of greater than 10kohms, there should be no problem with impedance.

    Assuming your power amps are identical, there will be no problem with input sensitivities. Both power amps must be switched on, or it is possible that you get the effect previously noted, that the "off" amplifier has a very low input impedance and effectively shorts out the working input.

    The question I have to ask though, is why biamp? There's no evidence whatsoever that it has any beneficial effect, but by all means prove this for yourself.



    S.
    Subjective opinion IMO should be regarded as a form of evidence. Not everything is measurable yet, but may become so once we understand the subject better and improve our methodolgy accordingly. If you say it's merely someones imagination - well, AFAIK you can't measure that either

    There's no evidence whatsoever that it has any beneficial effect,

    The word " effect" when related to music production means something that alters the sound produced. Whether that is beneficial is a matter of opinion.

    My idea is to be able to control the amount of bass produced through a seperate amp or active speakers with crossover. Maybe this is moving away from a transparent " natural " sound but what is that anyway, some time back I asked what system would produce the sound from the studio as the engineer intended and got a load of bollocks from various wammers. ( No disrespect intended )Some said that reproducing the sound of a live concert was what they wanted, thats fine if you happened to go to the live concert and liked what you heard. That may work with classical because it should be replicated every time unless the conductor changes the arrangement drastically. But some live acts are not a patch on the recording. Don't get me wrong I'm not looking for the sort of bass that comes from a vauxhall corsa on saturday night with some chav at the wheel, I am reasonably satisfied with the varied amount of bass that come from my small bass reflex speakersbut want to try different things. Maybe my speakers are replicating what came fom the studio because of the various tones and amount of bass they produce, I really have no way of knowing.

    Maybe what I should do is wait until I move to France, hopefully early next year, ok deserting the sinking ship I hear you saying, where I will have a dedicated room properly treated as a starting point. I believe this is the only way forward and not all this box swapping. I'm sure you all have very competant kit that would sound spot on the right room. I think this was evident at the heathrow show where only ABC audio's room sounded right to me.
    Actually, what you're suggesting makes some sense Normally biamping uses two identical power amps, and on the normal assumption that there are no level controls on the PAs, then what you're doing is using two power amps to amplify the same signal, thus making zero difference. If anyone doesn't believe that, can they please provide a reason or mechanism by which there could be a difference.

    However, if the two power amps have different sensitivities, either naturally, or because you have a level control, then what you are doing is shelving the treble relative to the bass, and thus providing a tone control. That will make an audible difference, whether beneficial or not is entirely subjective, and consequently can be to you. You will end up with a sound that's different to what the loudspeaker designer intended, but in some cases that would be an improvement!

    Later on, if you do go for an active solution with an electronic crossover, you can effect a very considerable audible and measurable improvement, especially if you choose a DSP-based crossover that gives you close control over the filter frequencies, slopes and phases. One of these days, I may buy a pair of Tannoy 15" 'speakers and make them active........

    S.

  7. #7
    Super Wammer paulf-2007's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    what I have are two identical integrated valve hybrid amps. I can therefore adjust the volume level on each. In time I will build either some full range horns or bass reflex cabs with full range speakers or woofers. If I use full rangers I can use a crossover to tune the frequency to what I need and also if I'm not happy with the results can use them on their own, without the crossover with one of the amps, hours of fun to be had swapping things around without having to keep buying and selling.



    serge, I had a look at your audio pages and agree with you about the listening room. I feel that the room is more important than the equipment and that most of the equipmentthe guys are using is good. Itsvery expensive to keep changing kit without treating the room, although I understand that most people have to use their room as a lounge or family room and its not ideal to have bass traps everywhere. I personally love Ethan Winers room but my wife said she wouldn't have any of it. Hence a move to France and my own personal space, thats not the only reason for the move but lets not get into politics.
    Mark levinson red rose rosebud II, J Soundlabs 300B, denon 1930 DVD/sacd, garrard 401, collaro 2010, lenco, yaqin phono, partridge step up, technics direct drive top load cassette, Nigel's speed controller, leema splx10

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