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Thread: Power Supply

  1. #1
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    I was wondering what benefits, if any,a dedicated power supply gives to your system?

    Also do you get the same benefits from having quality power cables direct from your bits to the mains?





  2. #2
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    Hi Dope.



    Lots of contoversy surrounding this topic, both sides have a valid argument, some say yes, it's a must, others say it's all bunkum, best thing to do is suck it and see, borrow, sale or return, or refund options, and try stuff out for ourself, if you like it it's your money, if ye don't nothing lost.

    HTH

    AK

  3. #3
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    Just read my last post back again, attaching my bits directly to mains sounds bloody painful and is maybe somethingI shouldn’t do under any circumstances.:Not Sure:



    With a power supply do you just plug everything in to it and then just have one mains cable. If so it sounds quite convenient and if you have lots of equipment then it could be cheaper than buying a fancy power lead for each bit of kit.

  4. #4
    Umberto
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    A Cyrus PSX-R added to my Cyrus 8vs gave the amp more "oomph" but ultimately not £400 more.

    As Paul says, try it and hear for yourself. Most good hifi retailers will let you try out stuff before you commit to buy.

  5. #5
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    Umberto I took it Dope was reffering to mains disti/power conditioner, not add on power supplies ala naim, cyrus

  6. #6
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    Apologies for being a bit vague AK, but I was in fact thinking of power supplies like the Cyrus, or to be more exact the Musical Fidelity X PSU.

  7. #7
    Umberto
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    Read a lot of views about the X-PSU. Apparently its not really worth the money. Better to save your cash and buy a better equipment IMHO.

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    Dope wrote:
    Apologies for being a bit vague AK, but I was in fact thinking of power supplies like the Cyrus, or to be more exact the Musical Fidelity X PSU.
    Cyrus etc power supplies - waste of time, waste of money, if you ask me. Has anyone really stopped to question why manufacturers like Cyrus or Naim just don't put decent power supplies in the boxes to begin with? I can try to understand buying a power supply from an independent manufacturer to bolster the sound of a component say a CD player from another manufacturer, but to buy an optional power supplyfrom the same manufacturer of say a CD player or ampis just plain silly IMO.

    Buying something like aCyrus PSX-R orMFX-PSUetc is a cul-de-sac purchase IMO, because you can only use it with Cyrus or MF components, and even then, the sound is not much improved. If that's the case, then why not experiment with some decent and cheaper power cords instead. Surely, a power cord can be used on several assorted components whereas a box like the PSX-R can only be used on Cyrus components. Btw, Cyrus is interchangable with Naim, MF etc in this post. If the basic componentdoes not sound good with the existing power supply in the box, then whatever improvement you claim to hear from adding an external power supplyto say a CD8 or Naim CDX2, you hear because the manufacturer put a crap power supply in the box in the first place. In the case of Naim, improvement to the sound is no more than around 2%, IME. But then we come back to the question, was it really an improvement or werethe power supplies in the Cyrus or Naim componentsdeliberatelyunder-designed so that theexternal power supply appeared to give an improvement? Add the cost of the component plus that of the additional power supply and ask yourself what else is out there for the money and in one box I might add.

    Wake-up and smell the coffee guys, unless of course, you like your coffee cold.;)



    Enjoy the music™

    Lawrie


    Off the beaten track lies the music......just waiting to be discovered.

  9. #9
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    What he said ^^^^

  10. #10
    Effem
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    Lawrie wrote:
    Buying something like aCyrus PSX-R orMFX-PSUetc is a cul-de-sac purchase IMO, because you can only use it with Cyrus or MF components, and even then, the sound is not much improved. If that's the case, then why not experiment with some decent and cheaper power cords instead. Surely, a power cord can be used on several assorted components whereas a box like the PSX-R can only be used on Cyrus components. Btw, Cyrus is interchangable with Naim, MF etc in this post. If the basic componentdoes not sound good with the existing power supply in the box, then whatever improvement you claim to hear from adding an external power supplyto say a CD8 or Naim CDX2, you hear because the manufacturer put a crap power supply in the box in the first place. In the case of Naim, improvement to the sound is no more than around 2%, IME. But then we come back to the question, is it really an improvement or werethe power supplies in the Cyrus or Naim componentsdeliberatelyunder-designed so that theexternal power supply appears to give an improvement? Add the cost of the component plus that of the additional power supply and ask yourself what else is out there for the money and in one box I might add.

    Couldn't agree more Lawrie and I see it as nothing more than marketing by stealth and therefore a con. If they built it properly in the first place there would be no need whatsoever to buy add-on power supplies.

    My own experinces with MF X-24K DAC's did show a marked improvement with a better quality PSU (Not MF's overpriced offering I might add) than the piddly wallwart that was supplied. Only a 1 amp one mind you compared to the 500mA rubbish one supplied as standard, but in reality how much more would it have cost MF to supply a decent fit for the purpose 1 amp wallwart as opposed to theinadequate one?



  11. #11
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    The MF psu is stupidly overpriced, I made one for a fraction of the cost that kicks its ASS. Also IME the power section of MF products are very poor. I have a X-Pre (the valve version) and totally redoing the whole power side of things made a massive difference. Im even considering scrapping the lot and making it all in a second unit.

    IME, the power supply of any equipment makes a big difference to the performance. Get this right and your half the way there.
    "I am easily satisfied with the very best".

    VOTE BALLS

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    But then we come back to the question, was it really an improvement or were the power supplies in the Cyrus or Naim components deliberately under-designed so that the external power supply appeared to give an improvement?
    What do you know about power supply design to conclude the power supplies in Cyrus kit are “deliberately under-designed” and "crap" Lawrie? I’ve owned both Cyrus One and Two amps and the powers supplies in these amps are among the best I’ve seen at the price point and indeed above.

    Cyrus etc power supplies - waste of time, waste of money, if you ask me. Has anyone really stopped to question why manufacturers like Cyrus or Naim just don't put decent power supplies in the boxes to begin with?
    Economies of manufacture. Mainstream hi-fi is designed and built to compete at a particular price in the marketplace. This introduces obvious limitations as to what can and cannot be achieved in terms of engineering at any given price point.

    The question is which offers better value for money. An external power supply that represents a real level of audio engineering or a power cable from a hi-fi apocathery?



  13. #13
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    MF is not the worst offender - the X-PSU can be usedto power4 x12V items, including other manufacturer's gear, provided you make sure you get the connectors right...

    The wall-wart supplied with my X-10V3 is actually a very good quality device of its kind - better than that supplied with many more expensive items I've owned. Plugged into my mains conditioner it's entirely noise-free in operation.

    All the main HiFi mags reviewed the X-PSU along with the other small X-series when they came out, and all reached the same conclusion - it improved the sound of connected components; with some the perceived improvement was small, with others larger...

    It's a well-constructed and effective bit of kit, and costs about the same as a pair of mid-range interconnects; it's not the ultimate (unusually, even MF don't make that claim!), but in the wacky world of hifi it's not bad value - especially compared with the more expensive and limited-application components from Naim and Cyrus.

    churz, eofs

  14. #14
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    Interesting thread.....

    I have got a Cyrus system and can honestly tell you that the CD8X sounds fantastic on its own and even better when used inconjunction with the PSX-R. I can't comment on the Naim or MF kit though.

    Adding an Acoustic Zen Tsunami powerlead ot the CD Player increased things again, but in a different way to the adding the PSX-R. The PSX-R enables more detail to be retrieved off the discs and definately increases the tingle factor, I find it nigh on impossible to put an album on without wanting to listen to it all.

    Whereas the Powerlead was more of subtle increase, just allowing me to hear subtle nuances in what I could already hear, if that makes sense...

    I would much rather buy hifi that enables me to start off spending a reasonable amount of money and enables me to improve the sound reproduction without having to sell the kit I have and buy something else.

    Of course, this is only my opinion

  15. #15
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    Lawrie wrote:
    Dope wrote:
    Apologies for being a bit vague AK, but I was in fact thinking of power supplies like the Cyrus, or to be more exact the Musical Fidelity X PSU.
    Cyrus etc power supplies - waste of time, waste of money, if you ask me. Has anyone really stopped to question why manufacturers like Cyrus or Naim just don't put decent power supplies in the boxes to begin with? I can try to understand buying a power supply from an independent manufacturer to bolster the sound of a component say a CD player from another manufacturer, but to buy an optional power supplyfrom the same manufacturer of say a CD player or ampis just plain silly IMO.

    Buying something like aCyrus PSX-R orMFX-PSUetc is a cul-de-sac purchase IMO, because you can only use it with Cyrus or MF components, and even then, the sound is not much improved. If that's the case, then why not experiment with some decent and cheaper power cords instead. Surely, a power cord can be used on several assorted components whereas a box like the PSX-R can only be used on Cyrus components. Btw, Cyrus is interchangable with Naim, MF etc in this post. If the basic componentdoes not sound good with the existing power supply in the box, then whatever improvement you claim to hear from adding an external power supplyto say a CD8 or Naim CDX2, you hear because the manufacturer put a crap power supply in the box in the first place. In the case of Naim, improvement to the sound is no more than around 2%, IME. But then we come back to the question, was it really an improvement or werethe power supplies in the Cyrus or Naim componentsdeliberatelyunder-designed so that theexternal power supply appeared to give an improvement? Add the cost of the component plus that of the additional power supply and ask yourself what else is out there for the money and in one box I might add.

    Wake-up and smell the coffee guys, unless of course, you like your coffee cold.;)



    Enjoy the music™

    Lawrie


    LOL, some Deja vue here methinks ;)

    Its a fair argument if you are changing just one internal power supply for another external power supply, or a small wallwart to a bigger one. On the otherhand if increase the number of separate power supplies per component within say a CD player or pre amp then there is an opportunity to gain improvement in two ways. Youget better isolation, and you improve theavailble current to each component so one doesnt suffer from the demand of another during peaks. Maybe there is not enough space in the box do do this? maybe there is... buta third benefit isgained by placing the large transformers further away from the most sensitive components.

    Take the CDX2 example, on its own its a very good playerwith a more than adequate power supply. To say it is deliberately under engineered is just daft. If that was the case then it would not sound as good as it does. It can be improved by over engineering if you like, adding more separate supplies and isolating more components but the real argument is whether the cost of such steps is value for money given the law of diminishing returns effect! Thankfully it is therefore only an option that some choose to take and others dont.

    Hawk ;)



  16. #16
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    Just remember the MF is AC not DC, check this before using!
    "I am easily satisfied with the very best".

    VOTE BALLS

  17. #17
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    mosfet wrote:
    But then we come back to the question, was it really an improvement or were the power supplies in the Cyrus or Naim components deliberately under-designed so that the external power supply appeared to give an improvement?
    What do you know about power supply design to conclude the power supplies in Cyrus kit are “deliberately under-designed” and "crap" Lawrie? I’ve owned both Cyrus One and Two amps and the powers supplies in these amps are among the best I’ve seen at the price point and indeed above.

    Cyrus etc power supplies - waste of time, waste of money, if you ask me. Has anyone really stopped to question why manufacturers like Cyrus or Naim just don't put decent power supplies in the boxes to begin with?
    Economies of manufacture. Mainstream hi-fi is designed and built to compete at a particular price in the marketplace. This introduces obvious limitations as to what can and cannot be achieved in terms of engineering at any given price point.

    The question is which offers better value for money. An external power supply that represents a real level of audio engineering or a power cable from a hi-fi apocathery?

    Agree totally... It really boils down to VFM choice at the end of the day...



  18. #18
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    Power suppiles make or break a component, the vast majority of equipment has a adiquate power supply, they are all built to a price.
    Also a badly designed psu can do more harm than good by comtaminating the surrounding electronics with doses of EMI/RFI certainly not good in digital or sensitive electronics.
    Some of us Have no such contraints thankfully, however a correctly implimented psu can transform a component (imho) MR.C
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  19. #19
    adam
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    I think too that it comes down to economics,though saying that some PS are overpriced.I added a Heed power supply to my rega and it grooved better with blacker blacks;).But it all seriousness,it really improved the sound of the deck,all for a very reasonable 330€uros.


    At the end of the day,one needs to evaluate if the costs are worth the outlay,be it cables,isolation,power supplies etc,but when you put all these things together,you may end up with a rather special sound.

  20. #20
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    subterranean-alien wrote:
    Just remember the MF is AC not DC, check this before using!
    VERY good point!

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