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  1. #1
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    Hi guys .Do you think the linn lp12 is the holy grail it is made out to be ?Or is it time we looked for a new benchmark turntable?

  2. #2
    Deaf Wammer Tel's Avatar
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    What is better from the 70's?


    "We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap" Kurt Vonnegut

  3. #3
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    Where have you been, lately? 1973?

    The LP12 is a good deck, if you like what it does, though it hasn't been thought of as a benchmark for a long time, except for flat earthers. I see you have a PT LPT, so you'd probably love one though. The earliest LP12 I've heard was an 80s one with an Ekos and Troika, into some Naim amps and Kans, and there's nothing better... if, and only if you're a fan of that kind of sound. The midrange bloom of a pre-Cirkus LP12 was made to match such amps, which were made to go with the speakers. System synergy at its most obvious, and all before Linn and Naim went their separate ways, of course.

    I don't really know what was available in the early 70s, but now even earlier idler-drive decks like the Garrard 301 and 401 are in vogue, along with the Thorens TD124 and others. Similarly, direct drives from the 70s like the Technics SP10 are back in favour.

    If you're talking about present-day alternatives, the list is endless. If you love the LP12, then arguably, there's nothing better, but at over £15k for a new top-end one today, there's plenty of alternatives, nearly all of them for a fraction of that amount.

    The earth isn't flat, after all.



  4. #4
    Super Dooper Wammer Cable Monkey's Avatar
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    I have a LP12 plinth and top plate and when bolted together it is not at all rigid or acoustically inert. My '83 MDF and metal plinthed AR manages that with ease so I do wonder what makes an LP12 work. I think back in its heyday the LP12 was not over rated. Compare it with a TD150 or TD160 of similar vinatge and the LP12's advantage is apparent despite similarities on the surface. Though just as flawed as a basic concept, a little attention to plinth mass and rigidity plus the superior bearing and the Sondek could eek out an advantage. The LP12 is now a premium product fetching premium prices, but to me it is like an S Type Jag. It appeals on a certain level but despite the modern engineering it is just a shadow of theMkII it emulates.
    Let me get this straight. You take a perfectly good CD and put it in a DVD player??!!

  5. #5
    Super Wammer cjr's Avatar
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    Its crap and everyone who enjoys one is nuts !! My advice try one from £400-600 second hand and see if you like it, you may not - but plenty do.
    Linn LP12~Denon DVD-2900~Marantz PS17~Dynaudio Contour 1.3 MkII|Sony BDP-S760~Sony MDS-JB930QS~Sony SDP-EP90ES~Sony TA-N55ES~Wharfedale 306|Sony CDP-X3000ES~Sony ST-S3000ES~Sony TA-VA777ES~Diapason Emera

  6. #6
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    Post imported post

    Sorry Thierry Henry iam basically trying to establish why there is the mass hysteria

    about the linn lp12.I do not hankerafter one .I would just like to know my fellow audiophiles views on better turntables in their opinion from that era.By the way I have now sold the pink lpt and am now the proud owner of a thorens td125 mark 2.(Absolutely brilliant deck).Bought it on ebay for £190 including goldring eroica cartridge.

  7. #7
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    MElias53 wrote:
    Sorry Thierry Henry iam basically trying to establish why there is the mass hysteria

    about the linn lp12.I do not hankerafter one .I would just like to know my fellow audiophiles views on better turntables in their opinion from that era.By the way I have now sold the pink lpt and am now the proud owner of a thorens td125 mark 2.(Absolutely brilliant deck).Bought it on ebay for £190 including goldring eroica cartridge.
    Two things made the Linn hysteria happen- Haymarket Press & very aggressive dealers who sold on the message. I bought into it untilI bought my 301 with a view to reselling it for a fortune in Japan. My mistake was to compare it to the Linn before doing so....
    Hi Fi would be so simple if the Flat Earthers had been right.

  8. #8
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    Post imported post

    The Linn was a decent deck, but it is easily surpassed today by decent belt-drive competitors.

    There are plenty of Japanese and other Europen idler and DD drives from the 70s and 80s that, IMO, make the LP12 from that era seem like trash.

  9. #9
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    stefanher wrote:
    MElias53 wrote:
    Sorry Thierry Henry iam basically trying to establish why there is the mass hysteria

    about the linn lp12.I do not hankerafter one .I would just like to know my fellow audiophiles views on better turntables in their opinion from that era.By the way I have now sold the pink lpt and am now the proud owner of a thorens td125 mark 2.(Absolutely brilliant deck).Bought it on ebay for £190 including goldring eroica cartridge.
    Two things made the Linn hysteria happen- Haymarket Press & very aggressive dealers who sold on the message. I bought into it untilI bought my 301 with a view to reselling it for a fortune in Japan. My mistake was to compare it to the Linn before doing so....

    I beg to differ. It wasn't a "mistake" on your part

  10. #10
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    Post imported post

    The LP12 has never been the ultimate deck. It's a good bet if you're buying one secondhand for £500-600. I wouldn't pay £1000s for a later/higher spec model - there are too many better-sounding options out there.
    My Flickr Page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/philnmorgan/

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  11. #11
    Super Wammer cjr's Avatar
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    MElias53 wrote:
    Sorry Thierry Henry iam basically trying to establish why there is the mass hysteria

    about the linn lp12.I do not hankerafter one .I would just like to know my fellow audiophiles views on better turntables in their opinion from that era.By the way I have now sold the pink lpt and am now the proud owner of a thorens td125 mark 2.(Absolutely brilliant deck).Bought it on ebay for £190 including goldring eroica cartridge.
    Why not just ask for people opinions on what they like from the era? You will get some people who like a LP12, you will get some who hate it, you'll get alternatives or comparisons. But this is just a slagfest for the LP12. Which I find really suits my tastes and preferences, have heard better new, but nothing comes close for what I like - the second hand price I landed mine

    LP12 bashing it is a national pastime in the hobby.
    Linn LP12~Denon DVD-2900~Marantz PS17~Dynaudio Contour 1.3 MkII|Sony BDP-S760~Sony MDS-JB930QS~Sony SDP-EP90ES~Sony TA-N55ES~Wharfedale 306|Sony CDP-X3000ES~Sony ST-S3000ES~Sony TA-VA777ES~Diapason Emera

  12. #12
    Super Dooper Wammer rockmeister's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    for a very brief period in the late 70's, the Linn was probably the best sounding sprung sub chassis deck around and was a BIG step forward from what was around in the 60's. It had competition, notably from Garrard, Thorens (TD150) and AR. Linn managed to gather enough fans (and dealer fans) to keep the interest going through the 80's, but once Michel, Pink Triangle, Townshend and Kuzma appeared, the interest went elsewhere. I can see absolutely NO justification for the price they are now....but then Linn have never been bothered by what anyone else thought.

    I owned a TD150 for a while....carefully set-up, the deck itself is very very good if you like that warm sort of sound, but the arm is NOT good IME/O, so I suggest you ditch it pronto for a rega or similar, which will give you WAY more for the money. Consider chatting to someone like Audio Origami. who engineers arms etc and can provide you with a package of arm and board to suit what you need.
    still just watching clouds

  13. #13
    Up the hammers ADPully's Avatar
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    Malcolm - I agree with cjr the question is a little badly worded and likely to incite trouble.

    Practicaly speaking I think there is no such thing as a holy grail of turntables most serious turntables when carefully partnered can give users decent quality and much enjoyment. Badly matched or even on a unsympathetic surface any turntable can sound poor.
    Ipod Pure I-20; Jolida DAC, Transcendent SE OTL; Ultracurve digital cross over and disco amp for bass, Speakers DIY 3 way Open Baffle, Hawthorne 15"Augie, Audio Nirvana, PHY 8"er or Fostex FF225K and RAAL 140-15D and a DIY deck Trans-fi based

  14. #14
    Super Dooper Wammer Cable Monkey's Avatar
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    ADPully wrote:
    Malcolm - I agree with cjr the question is a little badly worded and likely to incite trouble.
    Only amongst those excessively sensitive LP12 owners who don't like to read anything that isn't overwhelmingly positive about their decks.

    The LP12 is a big boy now, it has been around a long time and we have to assume its success goes beyond marketing and hype. It really doesn't need sensitive souls leaping to its defence even before any criticism has begun. We can talk about PT, Garrard, Thorens and all the other possible contenders but only the one is still really around in the same form it was back in the 70's, and that is Linn. After all the BS is dispensed with we are left with a turntable many are still very happy with and proud to own. Any thing else really doesn't matter.
    Let me get this straight. You take a perfectly good CD and put it in a DVD player??!!

  15. #15
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    Cable Monkey wrote:
    but only the one is still really around in the same form it was back in the 70's, and that is Linn. After all the BS is dispensed with we are left with a turntable many are still very happy with and proud to own. Any thing else really doesn't matter.
    The LP12 from an era is a good, solid deck, and its passionate owners can certainly love its sound.

    However, I don't think that its longevity is proof or even indication of its technological merits. There are plenty of mediocre products that are enduring (NOT that the Linn is mediocre).

  16. #16
    Super Wammer cjr's Avatar
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    Cable Monkey wrote:
    ADPully wrote:
    Malcolm - I agree with cjr the question is a little badly worded and likely to incite trouble.
    Only amongst those excessively sensitive LP12 owners who don't like to read anything that isn't overwhelmingly positive about their decks.
    Not at all Henry, If I got involved with every LP12 bashfest I'd be a busy man every bit of kit has "faults", just the context of this thread is purely to base on the LP12, when more alternatives could be garnered by a different tact IMHO.

    I hope you're not suggesting I only want to read overwhelmingly positive views on the deck, there is no chance of that in this place or anywhere else for that matter - but it attracts as much unwarranted attacks as the daft hyperbole placed at its feet from fanatical owners.


    Linn LP12~Denon DVD-2900~Marantz PS17~Dynaudio Contour 1.3 MkII|Sony BDP-S760~Sony MDS-JB930QS~Sony SDP-EP90ES~Sony TA-N55ES~Wharfedale 306|Sony CDP-X3000ES~Sony ST-S3000ES~Sony TA-VA777ES~Diapason Emera

  17. #17
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    who really cares anyway!

  18. #18
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    I think that looks quite funky now. Shame it was so poor under the skin.

  19. #19
    Super Wammer AdamK's Avatar
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    The LP12 is a 30 year old design - technology and materials have moved on. The fact that the LP12 is still in existence must mean it does something right.

    If I was looking at starting again there's a VPI in the classifieds that is a lot of deck for the money (Duvet ??)
    Ridicule is nothing to be scared of

  20. #20
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    Funnily enough, Hamish Robertson's design for the Ariston RD11 which predates the LP12 bears a passing resemblance to the old girl, but that's another story:



    The LP12 is the Porsche 911 of turntables - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Or rather, fix it very slowly, bit by bit - make it four-wheel drive, get rid of the air-cooled engine, and so on... You get the idea.

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