My bedroom Hi-Fi system.

[pobox-123]

My Hi-Fi, That's in a bedroom.

2 Modified bridged Quad 405 poweramps.
TDL Studio 0.75M
Quad 44 pre.
Rotel RCD-1070 CD player.
Thorens TD160B MK2/RB250/DL110.


This system of mines sounds absolutely nice, great vocals, dynamics and bass. Really full and rounded, NICE!!

Now here is the bad bit. I am starting to go off listening to vinyl because I find my Rotel CD player to be a lot better sounding over my Thorens. I don't really know what the case is? Maybe my cartridge needs changing? Or it could be that my Thorens is being a miss match with my system?

Anyway just would like to know what turntable goes well with a Quad405/44 combo?

[russ abbott - royds brother]

My friend uses a thorens 150 through 44/405 and it sounds pretty good.

I've got a 150 as well and it just doesn't sound great.

He is using a shure v15.

Not sure if my cartridge is shagged.

Maybe see if you can borrow a half decent cart off someone.

[pobox-123]

I might just buy a new Denon cartridge. If this fails, then it must be the Thorens. Sometimes I feel that I should have just got another turntable.

[meninblack]

I'm spinning the latest Maccabees album on my £500 pro-ject TT.

This is a beautifully recorded slab of vinyl and right now it's showing my £10k digital front end where to get off...

[pobox-123]

Just wondering, will the Heybrooks, Ariston and systemdek turntables be any better over the Thorens?

I know I am being silly. The Rotel CD player has better speed, dynamics and highs over the Thorens.

The Thorens is sounding very slow and woolly. And the tracking weight is set right on the cartridge.

I just don't know, I feel like getting rid of this thorens and just live with CD. This Rotel CD player goes very well with my system.

[SergeAuckland]

I think you're describing the limitations of vinyl replay compared to CD. To me, CD is better than vinyl in every way possible. Others of course will disagree.

S.

[pobox-123]

I know, you said this to me before

[Cable Monkey]

SergeAuckland wrote:

I think you're describing the limitations of vinyl replay compared to CD. To me, CD is better than vinyl in every way possible. Others of course will disagree.

S.

Of course they will. And there is nothing like a typical Serge sweeping statement to draw them into that.

Of course what the OP describes suggests a problem rather than a limitation of vinyl. Can I ask what arm is on the deck? The Denon cartridge favours a heavier arm, and of course it is moving coil. The Thorens arms of the period would probably not get on at all well with it. A decent period Shure would probably reinvigorate your interest in vinyl.

[The Strat]

Any number of reasons - what is the Thorens sitting on? have you had a good look at the stylus under a magnifier? Is the belt worn? But if it's set up properly you ought to be getting the same level of satisfaction as from your Rotel CDP albeit that is a good disc spinner.

Strat

[pobox-123]

Cable Monkey wrote:

SergeAuckland wrote:

I think you're describing the limitations of vinyl replay compared to CD. To me, CD is better than vinyl in every way possible. Others of course will disagree.

S.

Of course they will. And there is nothing like a typical Serge sweeping statement to draw them into that.

Of course what the OP describes suggests a problem rather than a limitation of vinyl. Can I ask what arm is on the deck? The Denon cartridge favours a heavier arm, and of course it is moving coil. The Thorens arms of the period would probably not get on at all well with it. A decent period Shure would probably reinvigorate your interest in vinyl.

The arm is a Rega RB250. I bought it new a year ago. It's a very nice musical arm for the money. I've had bad luck with the old shure V15 cartridges, I know there was a much later V15 but I never heard it.

It's got to be the Denon causing the problem? A couple of weeks ago it did sound a bit better. The stylus on it must be dying out.

[pobox-123]

The Strat wrote:

Any number of reasons - what is the Thorens sitting on? have you had a good look at the stylus under a magnifier? Is the belt worn? But if it's set up properly you ought to be getting the same level of satisfaction as from your Rotel CDP albeit that is a good disc spinner.

Strat

There is a pic of my system in my profile. And there you will see the Thorens. It's sitting on the top shelf on my Soundstyle rack.

[Cable Monkey]

pobox-123 wrote:

Cable Monkey wrote:

SergeAuckland wrote:

I think you're describing the limitations of vinyl replay compared to CD. To me, CD is better than vinyl in every way possible. Others of course will disagree.

S.

Of course they will. And there is nothing like a typical Serge sweeping statement to draw them into that.

Of course what the OP describes suggests a problem rather than a limitation of vinyl. Can I ask what arm is on the deck? The Denon cartridge favours a heavier arm, and of course it is moving coil. The Thorens arms of the period would probably not get on at all well with it. A decent period Shure would probably reinvigorate your interest in vinyl.

The arm is a Rega RB250. I bought it new a year ago. It's a very nice musical arm for the money. I've had bad luck with the old shure V15 cartridges, I know there was a much later V15 but I never heard it.

It's got to be the Denon causing the problem? A couple of weeks ago it did sound a bit better. The stylus on it must be dying out.

The arm should be a reasonable match for the Denon so that isn't the whole problem. Can I suggest you find a magic eraser, they are synthetic pencil rubbers. Draw it firmly along the stylus 2 or 3 times and you will probably get an improvement back to the best the deck has sounded to you.

[dudywoxer]

Not having heard one, I may be totally on the wrong track, but are you using the quad phono stage, and if so, is it any good? The denons normally match OK to Rega arms, so it should not be that.

[SergeAuckland]

pobox-123 wrote:

Cable Monkey wrote:

SergeAuckland wrote:

I think you're describing the limitations of vinyl replay compared to CD. To me, CD is better than vinyl in every way possible. Others of course will disagree.

S.

Of course they will. And there is nothing like a typical Serge sweeping statement to draw them into that.

Of course what the OP describes suggests a problem rather than a limitation of vinyl. Can I ask what arm is on the deck? The Denon cartridge favours a heavier arm, and of course it is moving coil. The Thorens arms of the period would probably not get on at all well with it. A decent period Shure would probably reinvigorate your interest in vinyl.

The arm is a Rega RB250. I bought it new a year ago. It's a very nice musical arm for the money. I've had bad luck with the old shure V15 cartridges, I know there was a much later V15 but I never heard it.

It's got to be the Denon causing the problem? A couple of weeks ago it did sound a bit better. The stylus on it must be dying out.

OK, let's put aside for a moment my thoughts on vinyl in general, and let's accept that the Thorens turntable system may be the problem:-

Firstly, the Turntable is mounted on a proper support, and it is a suspended deck also which makes it less critical of mounting, so let's for the moment eliminate that problem.If there's no obvious feedback or problems with footfalls in the room, then mounting isn't the first issue. I assume the turntable bounces freely.

Secondly the arm. Although the RB250 isn't the last word in arms, it should be perfectly adequate for the cartridge. The old Shure V15 cartridges were designed for low-mass arms, notably the SME3009 as Shure was the SME Importer in the USA. My V15III works perfectly well in a SME3009II-S2. Although the resonant frequency would be lower with a fixed headshell 3009, I haven't noticed any problems from that score.

The cartridge is a Denon DL110, which has a low compliance of 8CU. This may need a more massy arm than the 250, but that's easy to test: put a2p coin on the headshell with a tiny piece of blutack to stop it rattling, rebalance the arm and listen. If mass wasthe problem,the bass should now sound cleaner, less heavy in subjective terms. If there's no difference or it now sounds worse, then mass isn't likely to be the problem. I'm assuming that the cartridge is correctly aligned and that the arm tube is parallel to the record. If either is wrong, then all bets are off as to what it will sound like. If you have a test record, the ideal arm/cartridge resonant frequency is around 10Hz. 7-14Hz should be fine.

As to stylus life, opinions vary, but typically 1000 hours is what you should get from a stylus. It may be a as low as 750, or in the case of VdH, they claim 3000 hours, but only you can tell howmany hours it's likely to have had.

Finally, the QUAD MM input stage:- I've had the 34 and 44 preamps, with both MM and MC input stages and have never found them lacking.

In summary, there's nothing inherently wrong with any of the equipment you have, so provided it is set up correctly, I would expect it to work as well as it can. What I said previously about vinyl overall still stands.

S.

[It Cost How Much!?!]

Sounds like your cartridge is not clean, have you tried a cartridge cleaner? I use the Audio Technica one about every 100 hours and it restores the sound to tip-top condition. It might be worth borrowing one to see, rather than splash out on a new cartridge.

Personally, I have had two Thorens TD-160S with SME armsin the past and have not been convinced with either. The TD-150 is another matter. If you feel like a change (assuming it's not a dirty cartridge), then I would look at either a a Heybrook TT2, Ariston RD11S or the original Systemdek with your arm/cart.

[pobox-123]

It Cost How Much!?! wrote:

Sounds like your cartridge is not clean, have you tried a cartridge cleaner? I use the Audio Technica one about every 100 hours and it restores the sound to tip-top condition. It might be worth borrowing one to see, rather than splash out on a new cartridge.

Personally, I have had two Thorens TD-160S with SME armsin the past and have not been convinced with either. The TD-150 is another matter. If you feel like a change (assuming it's not a dirty cartridge), then I would look at either a a Heybrook TT2, Ariston RD11S or the original Systemdek with your arm/cart.

This cartridge cleaner you speak off, does it vibrate when cleaning the stylus? I think a long time ago my father use to have one of them, and he told me they are good. How much are these cleaners?



Turntable wise: I am not going to give upthe Thorens to quickly, because it's a nice turntable, and it sounds betterover my michell Syncro, which we will be selling soon.

But if I was to change to another turntable, oh yes I will be tempted to hear the Heybrook TT2 or the AristonAnd maybe even a Dual turntable, I see many people raving about the Dual's.

[Umberto]

Before you go spending money on a new / second hand TT, clean the stylus as others have suggested and if that dosent improve things, consider getting the arm rewired by Johnnie at Audioorigami www.audioorigami.co.uk and check the bearing oil in the TT. If it's low get some of Johnnies booster oil.

I find the RB250 can somethimes sound a little average. The rewire will do it wonders and you can be assured that johhnie will do a good job and charge very reasonable rates.

[It Cost How Much!?!]

pobox-123 wrote:

It Cost How Much!?! wrote:

Sounds like your cartridge is not clean, have you tried a cartridge cleaner? I use the Audio Technica one about every 100 hours and it restores the sound to tip-top condition. It might be worth borrowing one to see, rather than splash out on a new cartridge.

Personally, I have had two Thorens TD-160S with SME armsin the past and have not been convinced with either. The TD-150 is another matter. If you feel like a change (assuming it's not a dirty cartridge), then I would look at either a a Heybrook TT2, Ariston RD11S or the original Systemdek with your arm/cart.

This cartridge cleaner you speak off, does it vibrate when cleaning the stylus? I think a long time ago my father use to have one of them, and he told me they are good. How much are these cleaners?



Turntable wise: I am not going to give upthe Thorens to quickly, because it's a nice turntable, and it sounds betterover my michell Syncro, which we will be selling soon.

But if I was to change to another turntable, oh yes I will be tempted to hear the Heybrook TT2 or the AristonAnd maybe even a Dual turntable, I see many people raving about the Dual's.

It's a AT-637 and unfortunately not made for some time. They go for silly money on eBay (usually about £70), I bought mine new for £35. The reason they go for silly money, is that there is nothing better for cleaning your stylus. There is a Goldring copy, which is nearly as good and goes for about £25. Hence why I suggest you borrow one to try it out.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUDIO-TECHNICA...3A1%7C294%3A50

[pobox-123]

OK,

I gave my Stylus a good clean with a Clearaudio Stylus Brush. The sound has improved (Thank God)
Sound is more refined and dynamic. But the stylus of the cartridge is starting to wear away.
As I have had this Denon for over a year, and I have played lots of records on it.

I might think about getting the Denon DL160, Or a good MM cartridge. What are the best MM carts of today? I like cartridges that have nice midrange and good dynamics. Another thing I like to look out for is good vocal in any HiFi component.


And thanks to the people for the cleaning tips. Hmmmm I wonder if you all are females??

[pobox-123]

Just want to know something.

Townshend Rock turntables:

What is the difference between the Elite rock and the Rock Ref.