looking for refinement..........

[gthang]

......in a new cartridge

EOS confirmed what I had been thinking the other night; the DL-110 is at its limit. I want a new cart. I’ve flogged some hifi stuff and have raised enough cash to get what I hope, to be a significant upgrade on a DL-110. This is primarily for my slated pioneer / Jelco arm & Sumiko head shell Dino p’stage so needs to match this lot.

Whatever I buy has got to last, this sort of money will not be available next year so I really need to get it right. I have £500, could find a bit more say £600 - £650 tops, if really necessary - new or used with low hours. If I end up with a low out put MC ill have to consider a SUT as well I think (don’t really know much about SUT’s or what they need to cost)

I’m after a smooth engaging sound, with loads of detail but without the top end brightness. In a word… refinement.

I think a used cart with low hours would be my preference based on vfm. Bigdur has suggested a 2nd hand zyx, shelter, or an possibly a new entry-level shelter 301 (I could stretch to a new 501 if it was really worth it)

what ya reckon?

[JANDL100]

Denon 304 would meet the requirements, I think. But it's very low output and would need a hefty stepup.

Or a Denon 103R would be excellent in the Jelco arm, I think.

I suspect that you really do need to go to a low-output MC cart, sadly, to get the refinement and the detail together and so you'd need a suitable step-up.

My Ortofon Rondo Bronze is excellent at rrp of £600+, but maybe a bit too bold for the sort of thing you are looking for.

[Ian Sampson]

gthang wrote:

......in a new cartridge

EOS confirmed what I had been thinking the other night; the DL-110 is at its limit. I want a new cart. I’ve flogged some hifi stuff and have raised enough cash to get what I hope, to be a significant upgrade on a DL-110. This is primarily for my slated pioneer / Jelco arm & Sumiko head shell Dino p’stage so needs to match this lot.

Whatever I buy has got to last, this sort of money will not be available next year so I really need to get it right. I have £500, could find a bit more say £600 - £650 tops, if really necessary - new or used with low hours. If I end up with a low out put MC ill have to consider a SUT as well I think (don’t really know much about SUT’s or what they need to cost)

I’m after a smooth engaging sound, with loads of detail but without the top end brightness. In a word… refinement.

I think a used cart with low hours would be my preference based on vfm. Bigdur has suggested a 2nd hand zyx, shelter, or an possibly a new entry-level shelter 301 (I could stretch to a new 501 if it was really worth it)

what ya reckon?

Hi gthang

I've been considering buying one of these from 2juki on Ebay.I spoke to SCDIB at Rikki's bake-off and he says he's dealt with him before and got good service.

These two cartridges look superb value so well worth thinking about.


This one is low output so you will need a SUT ZYX R100-02

This one says high output,but it isn't really that high at 0.34mV ZYX R100H

He also has a Zyx Fuji but I'm waiting for a reply to let me know the cost.I would think that even a Fuji will be within your budget.

Best wishes

Ian

[dudywoxer]

It sounds to me like another denon is needed, either the 304, or its higher output brother the 301, (its still only 0.4 mv). Griffo I believe imported a 301 + step up last year.

There was a low mileage 304 + step up in the classifieds recently as well

[Papa Lazarou]

Ortofon SPU Royal N or Shelter 501/901.

[Emma Royd]

Denon DL304 nice cart, low output not a problem with Whest ps20 or MFlpsv3(SP)

[jonjin]

You can't get a decent step-up by going for the old mic transformers. Try finding an Altec 4722.

[scoobs]

Nice s-shape arm, heavy headshell....sounds ripe fora Denon 103R if you ask me. with a SS amp I would partner this with an NVA Phono1, rather than going the SUT route which better suited to valve MM rigs. Mr NVA will configure / optimise the loading before you get it. Should come in under 500, leaving some spare dosh to splash on the black stuff.

[arturo]

My Dino has adjustable gain settings, highest gain is for low output MCs. Will you really need a step up as well?

[gthang]

Thanks for all the suggestions gives me some reading to do.

Denon 103R, I hear what your saying re the match with the Jelco arm.

Shelter 501, have to say this keeps cropping up online with top reviews, the descriptions I've read seem to tick most of my boxes.

Ian's ZYX find look interesting aswell

It seems the dino is flexible enough to cope with low outputs without the need for an SUT for the time being (I would have thought the gain noise must be quite high with very low outputs.)

[i_should_coco]

You could Buy Tel's Shelter 901/Tribute combo...

[Tel]

Except it isn't a combo anymore, the Shelter 901 is sold.



The Tribute SUT is still available however

[gthang]

am I right in thinking the 901 is an older model no longer in production?

[Tel]

Correct, it was replaced by the 900 I believe at about double the price.

There are still 901's around though, old stock etc.

I believe that new they go for about £1300.00 and for that price I would buy ANs Io.

All the prices seem to have had a massive hike though, probably due to the pound against the Yen.

A good s/h Shelter would be a good buy.

Expert Stylus Co quoted me £250 for new suspension cantilever and stylus for the Shelter 901 that I had, so if you can get a donor cart cheap you could end up with something very nice and affordable!

I do see why you would like to buy new though and with carts especially it does make sense.

If the Shelter 501 has the same traits as the 901 it would be a nice cart.

The Shelter while very detailed is a bit warmer and slightly less analytical than the ZYX in my experience, although the ZYX is an excellent cart and we are not talking huge differences here.

[gthang]

Thanks for that Kevin, yes I think i'd struggle to buy a used cart for this sort of money unless I knew the owner and or it had low hours.

the 501 does seem very tempting, tis a lot of money though if i get it wrong

[rockmeister]

I'd agree with the zyx, although refined is not the very first adjective I'd use on it. Id add Lyra to the list tho....yes, for me Lyra then ZYX. I've not heard the shelter mind, and it does have a good reputation.

[russ abbott - royds brother]

i could be miles off the mark but when i was quite into vinyl in the early 80s i brought a dynavector x 5 which i found superb and was a big jump from others around that price at the time.

maybe carts have got that much better in 30 years but might be worth a listen.

[rabski]

With the caveat of checking compatability with your arm,I'm with Jerry on the Rhondo Bronze suggestion. Usually available around the £300 mark for a used, but properly warranted one, which leaves you enough for a decent SUT. Maybe a touch forward, but certainly not 'top endy' or harsh. Bold, possibly, but IMHO, not unpleasantly so, and very, very musical.

Matching with the arm is utterly vital,in terms of mass and compliance,so anyone know what really works here?

[stylusman]

I would consider a Benz-micro ACE-S or Glider-S for refinement.In their new incarnation with the better tip they are very hard to beat MC's. Healthy output too,even the L versions at 0.4mV,and wide arm compatibility.

[Papa Lazarou]

Tel wrote:

Except it isn't a combo anymore, the Shelter 901 is sold.



The Tribute SUT is still available however

I was going to suggest Tel's 901, didn't realise it had now sold.

Graham - you really should consider the Tribute SUT though. Pretty much as good as it gets.