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  1. #1
    Super Wammer myrman's Avatar
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    I am considering adding a tube buffer to my system probably between my pre and power or maybe just between the CD & pre. I just want toslightlysoften the top end that my ATCs are producing but I dont want to lose any soundstage or detail. My first thought was the MF X10D but there seems to be some interesting Chinese options. For less than £100 I thought they might be worth a try. Has anyone any experience of any of them?



    Weiduka 6J1



    YAQIN CD2-6J1

    I found an interestingreview of the Yaqin here which seems to rule out the MF: LINK

    I quite like the idea of being able to swap valves. Who knows I might even end up having some idea what half you tube rollersare on about.

  2. #2
    Wammer mrwippy's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    I thought the prime reason for abuffer stage was to impedance match or allow longer cables to be driven! Be cheaper to tape a tissue over your tweeters! Sorry if thats a bit negative, but this IMOjust bring us back full circle to having tone controls, which TBH I wouldn't mind at all.

    Paul


    Still around, but mostly elsewhere

  3. #3
    Too much time on my hands SergeAuckland's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    mrwippy wrote:
    I thought the prime reason for abuffer stage was to impedance match or allow longer cables to be driven! Be cheaper to tape a tissue over your tweeters! Sorry if thats a bit negative, but this IMOjust bring us back full circle to having tone controls, which TBH I wouldn't mind at all.

    Paul

    Completely agree. It seems sad somehow that we've collectively abandoned tone controls, yet try and achieve the same results by changing cables, or introducing unecessary electronics. If you want tochange the sound, then get a pre-amp with tone controls. Quad 34 or 44 comes to mind as being superbly built and cheap.

    S.



  4. #4
    Super Wammer paulf-2007's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    I'm sure someone will be along to give their opinion, but I have read somewhere on here about tube buffers doing sweet fuck all and being a waste of money. No personal experience myself, but tread carefully.
    PX25 mono's denon 1930 DVD/sacd, technics direct drive cassette, Haden boardman valve phono, beyerdynamics based step up, Audiomods arm, Benz wood SL Denon DP80 Najda dsp

  5. #5
    Super Wammer myrman's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    paulf-2007 wrote:
    I'm sure someone will be along to give their opinion, but I have read somewhere on here about tube buffers doing sweet fuck all and being a waste of money. No personal experience myself, but tread carefully.
    Much like biwiring then

  6. #6
    Super Wammer paulf-2007's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    myrman wrote:
    paulf-2007 wrote:
    I'm sure someone will be along to give their opinion, but I have read somewhere on here about tube buffers doing sweet fuck all and being a waste of money. No personal experience myself, but tread carefully.
    Much like biwiring then
    There's no reason why bi wiring would work, some peolpe hear what they want to hear imo.
    PX25 mono's denon 1930 DVD/sacd, technics direct drive cassette, Haden boardman valve phono, beyerdynamics based step up, Audiomods arm, Benz wood SL Denon DP80 Najda dsp

  7. #7
    Too much time on my hands SergeAuckland's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    paulf-2007 wrote:
    I'm sure someone will be along to give their opinion, but I have read somewhere on here about tube buffers doing sweet fuck all and being a waste of money. No personal experience myself, but tread carefully.
    Buffers have a function, mostly to do with impedance matching between a high(ish) source and a low(ish) destination. If you already have a pre-amp, then the output impedance will already be sufficiently low that indeed the buffer will dosweet Fanny Adams.

    Using a buffer as a tone control is madness.

    S.

  8. #8
    Super Wammer paulf-2007's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    SergeAuckland wrote:
    paulf-2007 wrote:
    I'm sure someone will be along to give their opinion, but I have read somewhere on here about tube buffers doing sweet fuck all and being a waste of money. No personal experience myself, but tread carefully.
    Buffers have a function, mostly to do with impedance matching between a high(ish) source and a low(ish) destination. If you already have a pre-amp, then the output impedance will already be sufficiently low that indeed the buffer will dosweet Fanny Adams.

    Using a buffer as a tone control is madness.

    S.
    thats her, fanny adams, just couldn't remember her name.
    PX25 mono's denon 1930 DVD/sacd, technics direct drive cassette, Haden boardman valve phono, beyerdynamics based step up, Audiomods arm, Benz wood SL Denon DP80 Najda dsp

  9. #9
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    Post imported post

    I'd be more inclined to investigate fitting some decent tweeters

  10. #10
    Super Wammer myrman's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    SergeAuckland wrote:
    paulf-2007 wrote:
    I'm sure someone will be along to give their opinion, but I have read somewhere on here about tube buffers doing sweet fuck all and being a waste of money. No personal experience myself, but tread carefully.
    Buffers have a function, mostly to do with impedance matching between a high(ish) source and a low(ish) destination. If you already have a pre-amp, then the output impedance will already be sufficiently low that indeed the buffer will dosweet Fanny Adams.

    Using a buffer as a tone control is madness.

    S.
    I dont want to cut the treble as such just change its presentation slightly if that is possible. The ATC tweeter isvery clean and detailed and using CD as my main source I am very much at the mercy of the recording. Just fancy adding a touch of warmth and I mean just a touch, I don't want or expect a massive change.

  11. #11
    Super Wammer paulf-2007's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    would it be possible to modify the crossover with something to adjust the hf, something like they use on Tannoys.
    PX25 mono's denon 1930 DVD/sacd, technics direct drive cassette, Haden boardman valve phono, beyerdynamics based step up, Audiomods arm, Benz wood SL Denon DP80 Najda dsp

  12. #12
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    I would forget those tube buffers they will only degrade the sound of your system. I would suggest that you get yourself a tube preamp. That should do the job nicely
    3Kva Regenerator: BLAudio Battery Pre: : Marantz DV7001/selfbuilt TDA1541 x 4 NOS DAC : QLN Signature Splitfield

  13. #13
    Too much time on my hands SergeAuckland's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    myrman wrote:
    SergeAuckland wrote:
    paulf-2007 wrote:
    I'm sure someone will be along to give their opinion, but I have read somewhere on here about tube buffers doing sweet fuck all and being a waste of money. No personal experience myself, but tread carefully.
    Buffers have a function, mostly to do with impedance matching between a high(ish) source and a low(ish) destination. If you already have a pre-amp, then the output impedance will already be sufficiently low that indeed the buffer will dosweet Fanny Adams.

    Using a buffer as a tone control is madness.

    S.
    I dont want to cut the treble as such just change its presentation slightly if that is possible. The ATC tweeter isvery clean and detailed and using CD as my main source I am very much at the mercy of the recording. Just fancy adding a touch of warmth and I mean just a touch, I don't want or expect a massive change.
    It rather depends what you mean by Presentation. You can cut the level of the tweeter a fixed number of dBs which will reduce the whole top end, using a shelving control. Alternatively, you can reduce the extreme HF by using a roll-off filter that will keep the lower end of the tweeter's range unchanged, and just roll-off the very highs. If you're really interested in doing this properly, thena parametric equaliser is the answer.

    Warmth is also a difficult parameter to define, but using something like the Quad tilt control, that reduces the HF andrelatively increases the LF to provide a better balance if it all sounds too sharp.

    If I were in your position, I would borrow or buy a Quad 34 or 44 andtry it. If you don't like what it does, you can very easily resell the Quad, at probably no or very little loss.

    S.

  14. #14
    Wammer ridley's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    I used an X10D a few years ago between an Arcam cdp & an MF X-A1, it added width to the soundstage, bass was slightly more powerfull & treble just a tad smoother. I liked the effect in that system, the difference though not massive was easy to hear.
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  15. #15
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    Post imported post

    Have you tried not toeing in the speakers?
    Keith.

  16. #16
    Sceptical Wammer
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    Post imported post

    Which brings us to the whole point of having decent tone controls. You can choose to use them ... Or not, and adjust the to suit. Sticking something in the signal path to slightly adjust the tonal balance will work of course (though possibly with unwanted side effects), and on some recordings is a good thing ... But only for the recordings which it works for. You could always get something like a Quad and put it in the tape loop if your amp has tape monitoring ... Purism AND proper adjustable tone controls at the same time :-)

  17. #17
    Super Wammer myrman's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    earlofsodbury wrote:
    Don't touch those buffers, even the best of them (MF) degrade the sound and contribute nothing useful. Total dead end waste of money.

    Strap some good quality 0.1uF film caps in parallel with the tweeters, that'll tame the sting.
    Now theres a cheap option.What exactly will that do? I dont want to lower the level in any way.

  18. #18
    Too much time on my hands SergeAuckland's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    myrman wrote:
    earlofsodbury wrote:
    Don't touch those buffers, even the best of them (MF) degrade the sound and contribute nothing useful. Total dead end waste of money.

    Strap some good quality 0.1uF film caps in parallel with the tweeters, that'll tame the sting.
    Now theres a cheap option.What exactly will that do? I dont want to lower the level in any way.
    I'm now really confused. You said at the beginning that you "want to soften the top end" Now you say "I don't want to lower the level in any way"

    Do you really know what it is you want to achieve? How to you expect to "soften" the top end without reducing it's level at some frequency?

    It sounds to me that either you just don't like the 'speakers any more, or more likely, you'rea ripe candidate for some tone controls.

    S.

  19. #19
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    Post imported post

    change your preamp for either something like EAR 864 or better(shindo, kondo, etc - just keep an output impedance under 100 ohm), ora passive TVC. i've had good results with both making ATC 20A more enjoyable within the limitations given by their design (opamps in the x-over, bad tweeters). i know where you are coming from.
    Horn OK Please!

  20. #20
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    Post imported post

    hi what model atc speakers are you running ?? if its the bigger scm 35 , i could suggest , a couple of sheets of the cheapest tissue paper blue tacked over the mid range ?? honestly give it a try , it helps the mid seem a little more intgratesd , i think the thrree way is a good box but our ears are not accustomed to listenning to the quality of mid range , also , dare i say the trebble in the older models is i feel a basic unit i have no evidance but justa felling from using my ears , any way i sun a nice set of electrostatics so i have the mid and trebble fixed to me style of hearing /ears , but try the tissue trick .

    valves seem good to me but often the big advantage is the widdenniong of the spread from left to reight , so another left fiel try a cheap beringer mixer honestly and pann things hard left and right ??? dont laugh un till you have heard the differance a wide sperred sound can bring to the part y, you might like it ??

    regards
    lowendall

    prehaps peeps in hear can sign the save fife music instructors petition on the face book .

    trying to stop cuts of 50 percent of staff , and cutting of kids music tution .

    regards
    lowendall.

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