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  1. #1
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    Question MICHEL HR power supply .............worth doing ???

    As above really.I've had the gyro for about 5 years and I've upgraded amp , speakers ,cart , arm .....and I've allways been dubious about a power supply improving a belt drive deck ?
    Is it a big improvement or not ????

  2. #2
    Super Wammer The Strat's Avatar
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    Definite improvement, more detail, better soundstage whether big or not is a matter of conjecture. But in the overall scheme of things it's not that pricey is it.
    Nostalgia is not art (MIB 1 Jul 13)

  3. #3
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    QC worked wonders for mine. Better than the Orbe platter imo.

  4. #4
    Founding Member ClassikFan's Avatar
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    As I understand it the HR power supply gives a more even flow of power thus resulting in better control of the platter speed and torque?

    I am sure it is going to make an improvement.
    Just coz you got the power... that don't mean you got the right.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by clap View Post
    QC worked wonders for mine. Better than the Orbe platter imo.
    QC was well worth doing. HR is for the DC-powered Gyrodecs IIRC ?

    Was there also a Gyropower VC for AC Gyrodecs that replaced the QC ? Or am I imagining things ?

  6. #6
    Too much time on my hands SergeAuckland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassikFan View Post
    As I understand it the HR power supply gives a more even flow of power thus resulting in better control of the platter speed and torque?

    I am sure it is going to make an improvement.
    And yet the platter is dynamically isolated from the motor by the fairly slack belt tension, and given the inertia of the platter, I can't see how changing the power supply can make any difference.

    S.

  7. #7
    Super Wammer montesquieu's Avatar
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    Serge, changing PSU on my old LP12 made a huge difference, not subtle at all, I assume the principle is the same here.

  8. #8
    Too much time on my hands SergeAuckland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Serge, changing PSU on my old LP12 made a huge difference, not subtle at all, I assume the principle is the same here.
    What I have a problem with, is what changes with a new PSU? Does the rumble get lower? Does the W&F get lower, does the isolation improve? If none of those things, then what actually changes enough to make it sound better? If some of those things change, when they were already very low on the sort of turntables we're discussing, then at best the improvement would be marginal, certainy not "huge".

    So what changes?

    S.

  9. #9
    Super Wammer The Strat's Avatar
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    All fair points as they stand Serge but isn't it enough that people just get a better musical experience?
    Nostalgia is not art (MIB 1 Jul 13)

  10. #10
    Super Wammer montesquieu's Avatar
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    Don't know Serge, I don't have any measuring gear other than my ears but what I heard was a cleaner, less muddled sound, which I thought was probably from less vibration from the motor. W&F was never the best on the LP12 anyway because of the belt/lowish mass platter so I'm not sure it made much difference there.

    I'm currently looking at PSU options for my Garrard - the theory is that lower voltages do exactly this, reduce vibration, but being direct drive this may be easier to accept as a logical consequence.

  11. #11
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    Motor runs more smoothly, discharges less vibration into the plinth? Pulls belt & hence platter round more smoothly? The suspension system & belt are mechanical filters but they aren't perfect by a long chalk. If they were, the deck would never be able to start.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SergeAuckland View Post
    What I have a problem with, is what changes with a new PSU? Does the rumble get lower? Does the W&F get lower, does the isolation improve? If none of those things, then what actually changes enough to make it sound better? If some of those things change, when they were already very low on the sort of turntables we're discussing, then at best the improvement would be marginal, certainy not "huge".

    So what changes?

    S.
    I believe the better power supplies are better regulated, giving a more precise (or to be more accurate a more precisely controlled) motor speed, resulting in improvements in all areas. The step up from the Gyropower to Gyropower QC made a massive improvement on my Gyrodec, it was not subtle at all.

  13. #13
    Too much time on my hands SergeAuckland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcook View Post
    I believe the better power supplies are better regulated, giving a more precise (or to be more accurate a more precisely controlled) motor speed, resulting in improvements in all areas. The step up from the Gyropower to Gyropower QC made a massive improvement on my Gyrodec, it was not subtle at all.
    So following on this logic, if the post-upgrade sound was "massive" improvement, it follows that the pre-upgrade sound must have been significantly degraded. And yet, a Gyrodec in standard trim is actually quite a good performer. So it comes back to my earlier question, what changes? What has changed by enough to give a "massive" improvement?

    S.

  14. #14
    Too much time on my hands SergeAuckland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Strat View Post
    All fair points as they stand Serge but isn't it enough that people just get a better musical experience?
    It may well be enough for some, but if I hear an improvement, it will drive me nuts until I know exactly what has improved. Otherwise, I'll just put it down to wish-fulfillment. I want it to sound better so it does.

    S.

  15. #15
    Too much time on my hands SergeAuckland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murray johnson View Post
    Motor runs more smoothly, discharges less vibration into the plinth? Pulls belt & hence platter round more smoothly? The suspension system & belt are mechanical filters but they aren't perfect by a long chalk. If they were, the deck would never be able to start.
    This is quite likely, but at best this would result in a modest reduction in already low rumble and W&F, not the "massive" or "huge" improvements reported.

    S.

  16. #16
    Super Wammer montesquieu's Avatar
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    I think we are onto semantics here, when I said the improvement wasn't subtle, I meant it was clearly and immediately audible, easily identifiable A to B, no thinking about which was which. I think for most people here when you get an improvement like that, it qualifies as huge as most attempts at tweakery have results far more subtle than that (to put it mildly).

  17. #17
    Too much time on my hands SergeAuckland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    I think we are onto semantics here, when I said the improvement wasn't subtle, I meant it was clearly and immediately audible, easily identifiable A to B, no thinking about which was which. I think for most people here when you get an improvement like that, it qualifies as huge as most attempts at tweakery have results far more subtle than that (to put it mildly).
    But then we're back to asking exactly what has changed by enough to provide the clearly and immediately audible improvement? W&F?, rumble? isolation? what?

    S.

  18. #18
    Cogito, ergo doleo. rabski's Avatar
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    AFAIK, the major improvements are a lowering of mechanical noise through a much more 'clean' electrical feed to the motor and an increase in speed stability at the macro and mirco level. Whilst a belt may provide some mechanical isolation, as Murray says, it isn't that great. Further, mechanical noise is invariably going to be otherwise coupled to the platter. Night and day? Of course not, but in the couple of cases I've heard, a marked improvement nevertheless.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but Iím not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant.

  19. #19
    Too much time on my hands SergeAuckland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabski View Post
    AFAIK, the major improvements are a lowering of mechanical noise through a much more 'clean' electrical feed to the motor and an increase in speed stability at the macro and mirco level. Whilst a belt may provide some mechanical isolation, as Murray says, it isn't that great. Further, mechanical noise is invariably going to be otherwise coupled to the platter. Night and day? Of course not, but in the couple of cases I've heard, a marked improvement nevertheless.
    So lower rumble and Wow & Flutter. OK, but in that case, you're saying that that reducing these from already inaudible levels makes a marked improvement. Hmmmm.

    S.

  20. #20
    CELEBRITY WAMMER Martha's dad's Avatar
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    Can't speak for the HR PSU but I found an iprovement in adding a Martin Bastin Wave mechanic PSU to my NAS Hyperspace - and there's a couple of other wammers with the same deck who had the same experience with the Wave mechanic. Difficult to describe - but for me the music seemed to 'settle down' nicely into a very integrated soundstage - no piss taking please - that's the best i can get to trying to describe the audible experience. Wammer Melstock has one - he may be able to describe it better !

    We both agree it was worth while.

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