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Thread: CD mastering

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    moor tuga's Avatar
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    CD mastering

    This is a 1967 analog recording by Supraphon, the Scherzo of Bruckner's 7th by Matacic and Česká.

    The first graph shows Supraphon's re-mastering for a 2004 CD edition while the second one was made in Japan by Mastersonic (Denon):

    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

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    Wammer
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    So the top one is actually hitting the peak limiter?

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    moor tuga's Avatar
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    Yes, and the Mastersonic exhibits wider "micro-dynamics" (if we can called it that) in constant SPL moments, f.ex. between minutes 7 and 8.
    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

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    moor tuga's Avatar
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    Peter's 1812; audiophiles' much loved sound of...clipping cannon shots?


    Philips/Mercury 1995 (ADD)
    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

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    I love your graphs.

    I love your posts with graphs in. So enlightening.

    Butuz
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    Can you measure anything by Foo Fighters? I have a feeling your graphs would show mostly clipping in some of their tracks.

    Butuz
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    Wammer Epiphany Acoustics's Avatar
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    Really interesting graphs.. It would be interesting to see such graphs for a whole range of music... Modern, old, metal, 'radio 1 songs'...

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    Wammer karlinamillion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuga View Post
    This is a 1967 analog recording by Supraphon, the Scherzo of Bruckner's 7th by Matacic and Česká.

    The first graph shows Supraphon's re-mastering for a 2004 CD edition while the second one was made in Japan by Mastersonic (Denon):

    It seems to me that the master tape was played on different machine.
    The differences are interesting though.
    The second machine seems to have a slightly greater dynamic range (not slew rate), or maybe someone's been riding the fader, either squeezing the DR in the first graph, or opening it in the 2nd.
    Have a look at the peak at about 3'52 and the peak at about 4'20", in the upper graph the difference is about 8dB, in the lower abot 10dB.
    Also the peak at 2'40" seems very different between the two.
    As for 'micro dynamics', there certainly seems to be something going on between 1'00" & 1'20", and also 7'00" & 7'30"
    Maybe the most telling bit is at the very end when it drops to silence, about -66dB on the top graph, below -69dB on the lower.


    Of course some one may have done a little processing, who knows?

    Do you know what source was used for each graph?
    Last edited by karlinamillion; 13-05-2011 at 11:12 AM.
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    The peak at 30" appears clipped on the top one even though it doesn't reach 0dB. Clearly just terribly mastering, just to get a couple of dB more. I can understand dynamic compression on pop (although it is loathsome!), but this is just shoddy.
    Compression drivers twerk my eardrums

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    moor tuga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butuz View Post
    Can you measure anything by Foo Fighters? I have a feeling your graphs would show mostly clipping in some of their tracks.

    Butuz
    Sorry, I don't have any of their albums...
    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

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    moor tuga's Avatar
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    4. Weird Fishes



    ___



    1. Leaving New York 2004



    ___



    4. Brompton Oratory 1997



    ___



    6. The Boxer 2001 remastered



    ___



    6. This Side Of The Blue 2004



    ___



    1. Night Train 1997 remastered



    ___



    Kind of Blue 1986 (wrong speed)




    __




    Kind of Blue 1997 - audiophile "tube" remaster

    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butuz View Post
    Can you measure anything by Foo Fighters? I have a feeling your graphs would show mostly clipping in some of their tracks.

    Butuz
    Get on to the Steve Hoffman forum, more wave forms and graphs than you could shake a stick at.

    Foo Fighters, Killers etc. Very fertile ground for a waveform that looks like a solid block. Glad I'm not that keen on their stuff tbh, the latest Adele album that everyone is raving over has been largely trashed by Sterling Sound too. All very depressing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuga View Post

    __




    Kind of Blue 1997 - audiophile "tube" remaster

    That is absolutely shocking- hang on is that the version I have (don't remember tubes coming into it)

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    moor tuga's Avatar
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    Don't worry, tubes clip softly...
    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

  15. #15
    moor tuga's Avatar
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    Bought myself a cheap used early edition CD of "Time Out" hoping that it wouldn't sound as bright'n'splashy as the current Sony/Columbia version and the tonal balance is very very different indeed, sounding much closer to what you would expect from a recording of the late 50s and to vinyl without the exagerated treble of most current jazz CDs.



    But unfortunately, and despite never peaking above -3dB, there's a lot of clipping similar to the "Kind of Blue" 1997 measurement.

    Cheers,
    Ric
    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

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    Missing the point florette69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuga View Post
    Bought myself a cheap used early edition CD of "Time Out" hoping that it wouldn't sound as bright'n'splashy as the current Sony/Columbia version and the tonal balance is very very different indeed, sounding much closer to what you would expect from a recording of the late 50s and to vinyl without the exagerated treble of most current jazz CDs.



    But unfortunately, and despite never peaking above -3dB, there's a lot of clipping similar to the "Kind of Blue" 1997 measurement.

    Cheers,
    Ric
    Worth comparing that with the Sony HDCD which I believe was tube mastered. To my ears, most of those early CBS Masterpieces CDs sound really terrible! Less than wonderful tape sources, poor eq choices.

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    You should look at some of the RvG re-mastered Blue Note recordings on CD. Bloody awful they are. Great music but a million miles from the analogue originals.

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    This is VERY depressing. Is it just incompetence or are they trying to achieve something by this?

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    Missing the point florette69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murray johnson View Post
    You should look at some of the RvG re-mastered Blue Note recordings on CD. Bloody awful they are. Great music but a million miles from the analogue originals.
    You don't need to be familiar with the old records; even objectively, many of those RVG remasters are simply unpleasant listening experiences. Aural vandalism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuga View Post

    4. Weird Fishes



    ___



    1. Leaving New York 2004



    ___



    4. Brompton Oratory 1997



    ___



    6. The Boxer 2001 remastered



    ___



    6. This Side Of The Blue 2004



    ___



    1. Night Train 1997 remastered



    ___



    Kind of Blue 1986 (wrong speed)




    __




    Kind of Blue 1997 - audiophile "tube" remaster

    I have that nighttrain version....it's one of my "system at it's best" cd's so encouraging to see the trace!

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