Audio Emotion Purite North  Epiphany Acoustics 
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: MiniMonitors

  1. #1
    aka Tannoyboy HoopsOnToast's Avatar
    Join Date
     Feb 2006
    Posts
     9,752
    Location
     Faringdon
    Real Name
     Rob
    Turn Table
     Michell Gyro SE
    T/Arm & Cart
     RB300/2M Blue
    Digital Source 1
     Sony DVP-S9000ES
    Integrated Amp
     Bryston B60
    Speakers
     Rega R9
    Pre Amp
     + 10" Tannoys
    Power Amp
     + Keesonic Kolt
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No

    MiniMonitors

    Was going to go active with the full range drivers, and OB etc but have decided to go back to mini monitors. My Fav's were the ATC SCM7's, but they need a big amp to get them going, and were not at their best at lower volumes. Now the best after those were the Keesonic Kubs that i had for a while, and bar the lack of smoothness in the treble, they were very similar to the SCM7's but a lot easier to drive.

    The Keesonic Kubs, will be using them as a rough guide and inspiration, along with the SCM7's.





    The Kubs used a Monacor tweeter (the weak link in the speakers) and a Seas 11DF-X or CA11RCY, which is very very similar to the current CA12RCY made today.
    The ATC SCM7's use a Vifa Vifa D26NC-55-06 tweeter, along with the custom ATC 5" Mid-Bass. Again, i feel that the Vifa unit is the weak link.

    I am thinking now of starting to plan and design a mini monitor for the next few months, when i will get back on the hifi track, and something to keep me going

    I want to combine the best of what i have experienced, and the plan is to go with the Seas CA12RCY and the ScanSpeak D2905/9300. The tweeter choice is down to i had a pair with the Kord Tornado's, the crossover was not matched but the detail and smoothness of them was very attractive, so i would like to include them. These qualities are what i was missing with the Monacor/Vifa units mentioned above.

    It would be good to go sealed again, and in my small room (around 8ft square) i don't think it will be a problem with the lack of bass. I am thinking a sealed enclosure of 3 Litres or so, with big chunky walls, like 25mm Plywood.

    This is still in the planning stage so feel free to pass comment, good or bad

  2. #2
    Super Wammer stewartwen's Avatar
    Join Date
     Aug 2006
    Posts
     3,770
    Location
     near Blackpool
    Real Name
     Stewart
    Turn Table
     NOT AT THE MOMENT!
    Digital Source 1
     Yes I have one
    Integrated Amp
     DenonAVPA1/Crown
    Speakers
     IAS, horns, modified
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    I would build a cab of about twenty liters and use the Precision Devices 8 inch driver along with the Audax two34 soft dome treble unit. Both these units are relatively inexpensive and have a flat frequency response. Xover on the treble unit at 3.5 kHZ @12 DB per octave. Run the bass driver full range and run the two units in parralell.
    Sealed cab would be best. You should be able to run ANY amp with them!
    S
    I am just a soul boy at heart.

  3. #3
    aka Tannoyboy HoopsOnToast's Avatar
    Join Date
     Feb 2006
    Posts
     9,752
    Location
     Faringdon
    Real Name
     Rob
    Turn Table
     Michell Gyro SE
    T/Arm & Cart
     RB300/2M Blue
    Digital Source 1
     Sony DVP-S9000ES
    Integrated Amp
     Bryston B60
    Speakers
     Rega R9
    Pre Amp
     + 10" Tannoys
    Power Amp
     + Keesonic Kolt
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Is that the PD8BM20? i have actually looked into it before. Would that work well in the near-field?

  4. #4
    Super Wammer stewartwen's Avatar
    Join Date
     Aug 2006
    Posts
     3,770
    Location
     near Blackpool
    Real Name
     Stewart
    Turn Table
     NOT AT THE MOMENT!
    Digital Source 1
     Yes I have one
    Integrated Amp
     DenonAVPA1/Crown
    Speakers
     IAS, horns, modified
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Yep it willl Rob, Biamp2 and I are building three pairs of them so if you want in justsend me an email and we will negotiate a better price for the PD units, after all four pairs will cost a little less than one pair!
    S
    I am just a soul boy at heart.

  5. #5
    aka Tannoyboy HoopsOnToast's Avatar
    Join Date
     Feb 2006
    Posts
     9,752
    Location
     Faringdon
    Real Name
     Rob
    Turn Table
     Michell Gyro SE
    T/Arm & Cart
     RB300/2M Blue
    Digital Source 1
     Sony DVP-S9000ES
    Integrated Amp
     Bryston B60
    Speakers
     Rega R9
    Pre Amp
     + 10" Tannoys
    Power Amp
     + Keesonic Kolt
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Cheers for the offer, not looking to buy anything atm, as i said, still in the planning stage. interesting thought though.

  6. #6
    Super Wammer stewartwen's Avatar
    Join Date
     Aug 2006
    Posts
     3,770
    Location
     near Blackpool
    Real Name
     Stewart
    Turn Table
     NOT AT THE MOMENT!
    Digital Source 1
     Yes I have one
    Integrated Amp
     DenonAVPA1/Crown
    Speakers
     IAS, horns, modified
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    We wont be starting the build for about four weeks or so Rob. Remember that there is NO SUCH THING AS CHEAP DRIVE UNITS!
    S
    I am just a soul boy at heart.

  7. #7
    aka Tannoyboy HoopsOnToast's Avatar
    Join Date
     Feb 2006
    Posts
     9,752
    Location
     Faringdon
    Real Name
     Rob
    Turn Table
     Michell Gyro SE
    T/Arm & Cart
     RB300/2M Blue
    Digital Source 1
     Sony DVP-S9000ES
    Integrated Amp
     Bryston B60
    Speakers
     Rega R9
    Pre Amp
     + 10" Tannoys
    Power Amp
     + Keesonic Kolt
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    This is the size of the room -




  8. #8
    Wammer
    Join Date
     May 2009
    Posts
     1,317
    Location
     Farnborough, , Unite
    Real Name
     JP
    Turn Table
     Garrard 401
    T/Arm & Cart
     AN Arm 2 Lyra Dorian
    SUT/Phono
     Art Vinyl 1 & SUT
    Digital Source 1
     Squeezebox Touch
    Digital Source 2
     Sony 555ESD
    DAC
     Kinshaw perception
    Integrated Amp
     KT88 PP & 845SE
    Speakers
     Apogee, ESL57 NS1000
    Pre Amp
     Morgan Audio S500
    Power Amp
     Leak st20 KSA50 LFD
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Sounds like an interesting project. I suspect it should work pretty well as drivers are very similar to ProAc tablette (originally IIRC were Seas 11-fgx and H202 tweeter with a tweeter replaced as a scan speak D2008 later on).

    For nearfield listening in a small room the tablette 2 with scanspeak tweeter were probably the best sound I obtained.

    I don't have experience of the latest incarnations of the drive units though.

    One thing I would research is the impact of using really dense 25mm cabs with small drivers and sealed box - you may end up without much bass at all.

  9. #9
    aka Tannoyboy HoopsOnToast's Avatar
    Join Date
     Feb 2006
    Posts
     9,752
    Location
     Faringdon
    Real Name
     Rob
    Turn Table
     Michell Gyro SE
    T/Arm & Cart
     RB300/2M Blue
    Digital Source 1
     Sony DVP-S9000ES
    Integrated Amp
     Bryston B60
    Speakers
     Rega R9
    Pre Amp
     + 10" Tannoys
    Power Amp
     + Keesonic Kolt
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Yep, i believe that the older tablettes used the CA11RCY, and the newer one (Reference 8) uses the CA11RCY, except the Reference 8 Signature, which used a paper Seas Excel driver. I liked the proacs but find them a little warm in their voicing and too much bass, not as tight as the Keesonics/ATC's which i put down to the ported enclosure.
    I have only heard the 1SC's (different altogther) and the Tablette Ref 8

  10. #10
    aka Tannoyboy HoopsOnToast's Avatar
    Join Date
     Feb 2006
    Posts
     9,752
    Location
     Faringdon
    Real Name
     Rob
    Turn Table
     Michell Gyro SE
    T/Arm & Cart
     RB300/2M Blue
    Digital Source 1
     Sony DVP-S9000ES
    Integrated Amp
     Bryston B60
    Speakers
     Rega R9
    Pre Amp
     + 10" Tannoys
    Power Amp
     + Keesonic Kolt
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    The older Tablettes with the CA11RCY (H149) (same as the Kubs) and a Scanspeak Tweeter


    And the newer Reference 8's with the CA12RCY (H1152) and a Vifa/Peerless Tweeter


  11. #11
    aka Tannoyboy HoopsOnToast's Avatar
    Join Date
     Feb 2006
    Posts
     9,752
    Location
     Faringdon
    Real Name
     Rob
    Turn Table
     Michell Gyro SE
    T/Arm & Cart
     RB300/2M Blue
    Digital Source 1
     Sony DVP-S9000ES
    Integrated Amp
     Bryston B60
    Speakers
     Rega R9
    Pre Amp
     + 10" Tannoys
    Power Amp
     + Keesonic Kolt
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No

    I have a plan....

    Right chaps, been a few musings recently with a speaker/amp direction for a while now. I have bought back the lovely little Keesonic Kolts, and fancy another crack at a Mini Monitor in their rough mold.

    Some previous musings-
    http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread...el-loudspeaker
    http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread...orner-speakers
    http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread...CM10-Crossover
    http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread...-Active-Mini-s

    I will use the SCM10's and Keesonics as a base for the voicing.

    I will probably use a small digital amp, currently have a Temple Audio Bantam Gold to try with the SCM10's and Kolts, and see how i get on.

    Currently deciding between the Seas CA12RCY and MCA12RC as the mid bass. Now the MCA12RC is a midrange driver with only 1.8mm p-p linear travel, but sims really well in a 6Litre sealed box (with a QTS-0.56) with a f3=88Hz.
    Now I dont think SPL is an issue as I was getting enough with the little 3" Veravox drivers that have a 1mm Xmax and much smaller cone area. That was with the 8w T-amp.
    The advantage of the MC12RC is that it goes a lot higher and should make an easy crossover (possibly first order) but the CA12RCY is not exactly bad in its FR, and has more head room but would need a ported box for any kind of bass (QTS-0.24).

    I have not decided on a tweeter, but there is plenty of choice, could even go with a ribbon as I am planning on running the mid up to around 5kHz+.

  12. #12
    Wammer
    Join Date
     May 2009
    Posts
     1,317
    Location
     Farnborough, , Unite
    Real Name
     JP
    Turn Table
     Garrard 401
    T/Arm & Cart
     AN Arm 2 Lyra Dorian
    SUT/Phono
     Art Vinyl 1 & SUT
    Digital Source 1
     Squeezebox Touch
    Digital Source 2
     Sony 555ESD
    DAC
     Kinshaw perception
    Integrated Amp
     KT88 PP & 845SE
    Speakers
     Apogee, ESL57 NS1000
    Pre Amp
     Morgan Audio S500
    Power Amp
     Leak st20 KSA50 LFD
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Are you going to go active then?
    Mini-t per side with one channel driving the bass and one driving the tweeters? Have you looked at driver spacing at 5KHz+, you may well find that you can't get the mid/tweeters close enough to avoid cancellation at some frequencies. With a near-field monitor I would be concerned about driver spacing more than regular far field.

    Just for info, I have picked up a pair of ProAc Tablettes as per your early pic above since your last visit, same bass as the Keesonics but with the scanspeak tweeter. Oh and finally got round to plugging in my Cyrus 2/PSX to check it works! Could make for some interesting comparisons.

  13. #13
    aka Tannoyboy HoopsOnToast's Avatar
    Join Date
     Feb 2006
    Posts
     9,752
    Location
     Faringdon
    Real Name
     Rob
    Turn Table
     Michell Gyro SE
    T/Arm & Cart
     RB300/2M Blue
    Digital Source 1
     Sony DVP-S9000ES
    Integrated Amp
     Bryston B60
    Speakers
     Rega R9
    Pre Amp
     + 10" Tannoys
    Power Amp
     + Keesonic Kolt
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Will be passive I think. It would be easiest to just take the Keesonics and improve them with a better crossover and more substantial cabinet, but as they are rare, i really dont want to take them apart, hence looking at the modern day versions of the drivers in the MCA12RC and the CA12RCY.
    The Tablettes do look nice, would probably go for them if it was not for the port, one thing i have heard with the tablettes is that they need a good bit of space around them.

  14. #14
    Wammer Fatmarley's Avatar
    Join Date
     Dec 2008
    Posts
     1,538
    Location
     Gloucestershire
    Real Name
     Matt
    Digital Source 1
     Modified CA Dacmagic
    Integrated Amp
     Modified Onix OA21
    Speakers
     DIY
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    How about the Paper Hatt ? http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/do...0HATT_copy.pdf

    I'm running a series crossover with no capacitors at the moment and i'm really pleased with the results.

  15. #15
    aka Tannoyboy HoopsOnToast's Avatar
    Join Date
     Feb 2006
    Posts
     9,752
    Location
     Faringdon
    Real Name
     Rob
    Turn Table
     Michell Gyro SE
    T/Arm & Cart
     RB300/2M Blue
    Digital Source 1
     Sony DVP-S9000ES
    Integrated Amp
     Bryston B60
    Speakers
     Rega R9
    Pre Amp
     + 10" Tannoys
    Power Amp
     + Keesonic Kolt
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Yep had seen that design (when looking for CA12RCY designs) and it looks good, although would want to make a sealed version, although could work as its front ported.

  16. #16
    Wammer Fatmarley's Avatar
    Join Date
     Dec 2008
    Posts
     1,538
    Location
     Gloucestershire
    Real Name
     Matt
    Digital Source 1
     Modified CA Dacmagic
    Integrated Amp
     Modified Onix OA21
    Speakers
     DIY
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Have you seen my Green mountain thread in the audio room ?

    The little Aura NS6 could be just the job and it's very cheap. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=299-030

    A guy over at parts express built some speakers with these drivers and said it was the clearest midrange he'd ever heard.

  17. #17
    aka Tannoyboy HoopsOnToast's Avatar
    Join Date
     Feb 2006
    Posts
     9,752
    Location
     Faringdon
    Real Name
     Rob
    Turn Table
     Michell Gyro SE
    T/Arm & Cart
     RB300/2M Blue
    Digital Source 1
     Sony DVP-S9000ES
    Integrated Amp
     Bryston B60
    Speakers
     Rega R9
    Pre Amp
     + 10" Tannoys
    Power Amp
     + Keesonic Kolt
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Keep going round in circles here, been put onto the ScanSpeak 10F/8424G00 wide range driver.
    http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-...f-4424g00.html
    http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=35701

    4Ohm version -


    I initially discounted the fibre-glass cone, based on preconceptions, but it seems to be getting good measurements and comments.
    I really should stop researching and get on with something Just going round in circles
    Last edited by HoopsOnToast; 03-11-2011 at 03:45 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •