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  1. #1
    Wammer
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    Wbt nextgen ag and other plugs

    An interesting evening last night taking 3 sets leads each made of TEAD interconnect cable terminated with Copper Eichmann , Silver Eichmann and last but certainly not least WBT AG Nextgen plugs, original type ( I see that they have recently introduced a replacement 'analogue' version) to try in a friends system. He was using some Leads from Van de Hull not sure of the model but RRP of about 120. Firstly we listened to Keb Mo through the existing leads and then via Eichmann Cu , Eichmann Ag and finally WBT Nextgen Ag. The E' cu sounded far more detailed but somehow detached from the music. The E' ag's had more finesse whilst keeping the increased detail and sounded more 'right' Then came the WBT's where everything just snapped into place and the sound stage suddenly became more 3 dimensional and dynamic. We repeated this with classical , Ella Fitzgerald and various others and the effect was the same. We then experimented with sources changing from CD to streaming and the same inprovement was right across the board. An expensive experiment for my friend who is now gagging to get his hands on some new leads. We had replaced the leads between his CD player / Squeezebox and his most recent purchase, a Rega DAC. In the past he has been very sceptical about improvements that a lead could make, but last night his opinion changed!!!
    Don\'t listen to the system, listen to the music.

  2. #2
    Registered Boycie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rory57 View Post
    An interesting evening last night taking 3 sets leads each made of TEAD interconnect cable terminated with Copper Eichmann , Silver Eichmann and last but certainly not least WBT AG Nextgen plugs, original type ( I see that they have recently introduced a replacement 'analogue' version) to try in a friends system. He was using some Leads from Van de Hull not sure of the model but RRP of about 120. Firstly we listened to Keb Mo through the existing leads and then via Eichmann Cu , Eichmann Ag and finally WBT Nextgen Ag. The E' cu sounded far more detailed but somehow detached from the music. The E' ag's had more finesse whilst keeping the increased detail and sounded more 'right' Then came the WBT's where everything just snapped into place and the sound stage suddenly became more 3 dimensional and dynamic. We repeated this with classical , Ella Fitzgerald and various others and the effect was the same. We then experimented with sources changing from CD to streaming and the same inprovement was right across the board. An expensive experiment for my friend who is now gagging to get his hands on some new leads. We had replaced the leads between his CD player / Squeezebox and his most recent purchase, a Rega DAC. In the past he has been very sceptical about improvements that a lead could make, but last night his opinion changed!!!
    So that proves it, even cables and connectors are getting better!

    I think the slippery slope has now claimed another victim. He's done well to resist for so many years but finally he is starting to understand what we've been going on about for years.

  3. #3
    Wammer
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    Resist the temptation to listen or you WILL be next!!!
    Don\'t listen to the system, listen to the music.

  4. #4
    100% Analogue YNWAN's Avatar
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    I've just been loaned four cables by a manufacturer where the only difference between them are the plugs used.

  5. #5
    Wammer
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    Quote Originally Posted by YNWAN View Post
    I've just been loaned four cables by a manufacturer where the only difference between them are the plugs used.
    Should be an eye (ear) opener for you, would be interested in hearing your conclusions.
    Don\'t listen to the system, listen to the music.

  6. #6
    Deaf Wammer Tel's Avatar
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    Do it blind.
    "We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap" Kurt Vonnegut

  7. #7
    Wammer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    Do it blind.
    I was told once that if I persisted I would go blind! Not sure they were talking about cable comparision though.
    Don\'t listen to the system, listen to the music.

  8. #8
    Deaf Wammer Tel's Avatar
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    I once asked a Speaker manufacturer why he used WBT connectors on his top of the range model.

    He said 'it makes absolutely no difference to the sound but people expect them on a premium product'
    "We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap" Kurt Vonnegut

  9. #9
    Wammer
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    We did a complete test ( admittedly not blindfolded, as it would be a sod to find the amps! LOL ) my friend is extremely sceptical about leads so I let him give a running commentary on changes in sound. The conclusions were based mainly on his observations. I too have been in and around hi-fi for many years with a world renowned speaker designer as a friend. I agree that a lot of products are snake oil, but in this case the difference was there.
    Don\'t listen to the system, listen to the music.

  10. #10
    Wammer
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    A friend changed his SME 501 arm lead plugs to WBT Ag recently (over 100 a pair if I recall), and he swears it made a big difference. He's do the lot if he didn't have all dins. Seems the Superline he uses has WBT sockets, so some symbiosis must be taken on board.

  11. #11
    Deaf Wammer Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boycie View Post
    So that proves it, even cables and connectors are getting better!
    It doesn't 'prove' anything at all
    "We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap" Kurt Vonnegut

  12. #12
    100% Analogue YNWAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rory57 View Post
    Should be an eye (ear) opener for you, would be interested in hearing your conclusions.
    Well, I have experimented with this in the past in that I have 'upgraded' connectors and noted an improvement. However, this is the first time I have had the opportunity to hear such a range of connector qualities (and prices) all fitted to exactly the same cable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pussycat View Post
    Seems the Superline he uses has WBT sockets, so some symbiosis must be taken on board.
    Hmm...I'm pretty sure they are the gold ones though (so not so obvious to use a silver plug).
    ____________________

    I could do my testing blind and may do so. However, I'm not looking to carry out a scientific experiment. In addition, I have no vested interest in the results and won't be buying new connectors whatever I find.
    Last edited by YNWAN; 07-05-2012 at 06:52 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by YNWAN View Post
    Well, I have experimented with this in the past in that I have 'upgraded' connectors and noted an improvement. However, this is the first time I have had the opportunity to hear such a range of connector qualities (and prices) all fitted to exactly the same cable.
    Me too, it was only that my friend was looking for another interconnect that this exercise came about. I look forward to your comments. Happy listening.
    Don\'t listen to the system, listen to the music.

  14. #14
    100% Analogue YNWAN's Avatar
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    Cheers

    They should arrive in the next day or so.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by YNWAN View Post
    Well, I have experimented with this in the past in that I have 'upgraded' connectors and noted an improvement. However, this is the first time I have had the opportunity to hear such a range of connector qualities (and prices) all fitted to exactly the same cable.

    I take it we talking Mark Grant IC's here ? If so , with identical cable providing a degree of control , any conclusions should prove most interesting .

  16. #16
    Deaf Wammer Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMooN View Post
    I take it we talking Mark Grant IC's here ? If so , with identical cable providing a degree of control , any conclusions should prove most interesting .
    I would also be interested, if you get a chance to do the tests blind even better.
    "We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap" Kurt Vonnegut

  17. #17
    100% Analogue YNWAN's Avatar
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    Yes, they are the Mark Grant range of interconnects. He does exactly the same cable with four different types of RCA plugs; Canare crimped plugs, Neutrik Profi, WBT Cu (copper) and WBT Ag (silver). Mark has been good enough to furnish me with examples of all four so that I can compare the effects of different connectors.

    I probably will include an element of blind testing, but more as a control than as the inherent process. I'll write up my thoughts and findings properly once I have had a chance to compare them.

  18. #18
    Wammer griffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YNWAN View Post
    Yes, they are the Mark Grant range of interconnects. He does exactly the same cable with four different types of RCA plugs; Canare crimped plugs, Neutrik Profi, WBT Cu (copper) and WBT Ag (silver). Mark has been good enough to furnish me with examples of all four so that I can compare the effects of different connectors.

    I probably will include an element of blind testing, but more as a control than as the inherent process. I'll write up my thoughts and findings properly once I have had a chance to compare them.
    Why not fully blind? You've heard of the placebo effect and how your mind can trick you into wanting an 'upgrade' to sound better?

    If you know what your changing, then your mind knows already what should sound better, which makes the whole thing a waste of time. You will only hear what you want to hear.
    Nothing in fine print is ever good news

  19. #19
    100% Analogue YNWAN's Avatar
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    Because if you've ever done any fully blind testing you will know what a royal pain in the ass it is to do - even more so between four components! I'm used to making changes within the system and contrary to your assertion that "If you know what your changing, then your mind knows already what should sound better" (you make a lot of assumptions in the one sentence) I don't always like them (I made a change today and didn't like it), sometimes there is no audible change of value. I'm neither financially, nor emotionally, committed to hearing improvements in this scenario (I'm not looking to purchase anything) - I'm happy with what I am using and am genuinely not looking to make any changes.

    I won't hear what I want to hear because I honestly don't care one way or the other - it is purely of academic interest to me. I've done sighted tests, I've done blind tests and I've done double blind tests; I'm not interested in proving or disproving different testing methods. If you want to do double blind tests then that's fine with me, If you choose to consider my findings invalid (whatever they turn out to be) then that is also fine with me.

  20. #20
    Wammer griffy's Avatar
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    I understand its a pain, and if this testing is purely for your own inquisitiveness, then that's all fine by me.
    You know your own mind better than anyone else, and if your happy with your findings then that's all that matters.
    Please don't think I'm being condescending. I'm really not.
    You spend your own money and you enjoy it in your own way. I have components, cables and tweaks that I like and would no doubt be derided by others on the forum, it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

    Hifi is a personal thing, or at least it should be!
    Nothing in fine print is ever good news

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