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  1. #41
    Super Dooper Wammer rockmeister's Avatar
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    can you IMAGINE the outcry if Horses were fluffy animals. Train hamsters to sit on kittens, let one break a leg and see what the Daily Mail says.
    still just watching clouds

  2. #42
    Wammers Album Clubber Barney's Avatar
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    Stuart do you mean call it a day for all equine events ?

  3. #43
    Moderator Cambs12's Avatar
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    No.But the events such as this that have a high mortality rate should be looked at.I know bugger all about horse racing.Indeed this was the first race i have watched in it's entirety,due to my in-laws having a flutter on it.
    But it seems,from what i have seen and read subsequently,that this was always extremely likely to happen,regardless of the safety measures implemented folllowing last year's event.Whilst you cannot rule out risk in any equine event,this race does seem to have a higher chance of ending badly from what i have seen.The racing world does not seem to be overly concerned with yesterday's events,engrossing itself in a debate over the winner,instead of agreeing that things need to change significantly.I was stunned that none of the rider's themselves were not more seriously hurt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Barney View Post
    Stuart do you mean call it a day for all equine events ?

  4. #44
    Super Wammer Sheva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cambs12 View Post
    No.But the events such as this that have a high mortality rate should be looked at.
    I'm presuming that you haven't had roast beef for your Sunday roast? ... young fit cow involved

  5. #45
    Wammer Stupinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheva View Post
    I'm presuming that you haven't had roast beef for your Sunday roast? ... young fit cow involved
    I din't but I did have some nice cake...

  6. #46
    Moderator Cambs12's Avatar
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    I get your point.But these horses suffer far more pain after their fall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheva View Post
    I'm presuming that you haven't had roast beef for your Sunday roast? ... young fit cow involved

  7. #47
    Miserable Git unclepuncle's Avatar
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    They can't make the race any safer - in fact reducing the size of the fences and the drop at Bechers Brook has made it more dangerous becuase the horses now go faster than they did in Red Rums day. If they change the fences to normal steeple chase fences like at Cheltenham etc there will be just as many fatalities.

    You either accept the dangers (as the jockeys themselves do) or you ban everything that might hurt an animal - including all meat production.
    'Master of Prescience'

  8. #48
    Good Love 69969 robbyrtp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikehit View Post
    420 die per year, about 160 actually at the racecourse

    http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/

    That statistic is quite shocking.
    This has made me feel quite sad. This is because I can't stand cruelty in any shape or form. If you look into a horses eye you can see the soul of that beautiful animal. If these were human deaths this so called sport would have been banned years ago. I think that if you really loved your horse you would treat it with the respect that they deserve and never race it in this maner. The same can be said of Greyhounds. I rescued a Lurcher 11 years ago, best thing I have ever done and will probably do it again.
    If you can,t say anything nice say nothing at all.

  9. #49
    Super Wammer Sheva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepuncle View Post
    They can't make the race any safer - in fact reducing the size of the fences and the drop at Bechers Brook has made it more dangerous becuase the horses now go faster than they did in Red Rums day. If they change the fences to normal steeple chase fences like at Cheltenham etc there will be just as many fatalities.

    You either accept the dangers (as the jockeys themselves do) or you ban everything that might hurt an animal - including all meat production.
    Making the fences as small as possible has increased fatalities since they think they can jump them all like a normal park course going flat out. Make them all as big and wide as the Chair and the races will be run a lot slower with less risks overall.

  10. #50
    Super Wammer mikehit's Avatar
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    One of the deaths yesterday was a freak and one was in the melee caused when other horses fall. One option they really need to consider is reducing the field size - I believe in the past they have had a few as something like 30 horses instead of the current 40 so there is obviously no real reason to have such a large field (other than money, of course...).

  11. #51
    Miserable Git unclepuncle's Avatar
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    I expect that at least one pony will die today at a childrens gymkhana - does that mean they are cruel, barbaric etc.

    The racing authorities really can't do any more to make the course safe - maybe reducing the number of runners will help but there is always an inherent risk with half a ton of horse flesh running and jumping at 40mph. If society wants to decide that the risk to animals is unacceptable then so be it - maybe we can watch children playing conkers with goggles and helmets on instead.

    Ban racing (and if you want to stop all equine deaths that means flat and jumps), and all other equine sports (Polo, eventing etc) and there will be tens of thousands of horses needing to be killed as there is no other realistic use for them - they are bred to race, not to be ridden along the local roads by rank amateurs.

    And trust me, if a horse doesn't want to race or jump it won't - irrespective of what a jockey wants. 'You can lead a horse to water...........'.
    'Master of Prescience'

  12. #52
    Moderator Cambs12's Avatar
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    I am not saying stop horse racing Paul,that would be a daft suggestion.And i know this next suggestion will be shot down,but if the reason the horses are exposed to so much risk is the fences,remove the fekkin fences.I know this would spoil,for racing enthusiasts,a famous and historical race,but things change over generations.

  13. #53
    Super Dooper Wammer rockmeister's Avatar
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    Hunt horses are bred to jump...greyhounds sprint, bull terriers grip things a lot, spaniels find grouse in bushes, Shire horses shift weights, shetland ponies look cute and carry small girls about, It's what they DO.
    I hate cruelty too, but there is a difference between cruelty and accident. Badger baiting is cruel, dog fighting is cruel, but pushing man and mount to a limit is not cruel, it's exciting, dangerous and watchable. I don't much want the damned world legislated any more than it is. I admit to hunting falcons over the heather, using dogs to point, riding for pleasure (over jumps too when younger), fishing for trout and salmon. All these things are exciting and IMO natural for me to do. I eat meat. I kill and eat what I have killed, but let's keep the rhetoric out of things. Seeing an animal suffer in pain is horrible, but that doesn't mean that the purpose of the day is barbaric, or, that we have not tried to make it as safe as possible. Further legislation will remove it all together, and I think that's wrong...a knee jerk daily mail reaction about the wrong thing, made by people who havn't thought it through, and creating as many problems as it solves.
    Leave the fluffy animals on the pillowcases of small blonde girls.
    still just watching clouds

  14. #54
    Good Love 69969 robbyrtp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmeister View Post
    Hunt horses are bred to jump...greyhounds sprint, bull terriers grip things a lot, spaniels find grouse in bushes, Shire horses shift weights, shetland ponies look cute and carry small girls about, It's what they DO.
    I hate cruelty too, but there is a difference between cruelty and accident. Badger baiting is cruel, dog fighting is cruel, but pushing man and mount to a limit is not cruel, it's exciting, dangerous and watchable. I don't much want the damned world legislated any more than it is. I admit to hunting falcons over the heather, using dogs to point, riding for pleasure (over jumps too when younger), fishing for trout and salmon. All these things are exciting and IMO natural for me to do. I eat meat. I kill and eat what I have killed, but let's keep the rhetoric out of things. Seeing an animal suffer in pain is horrible, but that doesn't mean that the purpose of the day is barbaric, or, that we have not tried to make it as safe as possible. Further legislation will remove it all together, and I think that's wrong...a knee jerk daily mail reaction about the wrong thing, made by people who havn't thought it through, and creating as many problems as it solves.
    Leave the fluffy animals on the pillowcases of small blonde girls.
    Accidents can be avoided. Accidents waiting to happen more like. Pushing Rider and mount to the limit. Well the limit has really been met by the horses that get killed. Most of us never kill anything to eat we let others do that for us I'm glad to say and we hope that it is done painlessly. I have no sympathy for the riders as this is thier choice.
    If you can,t say anything nice say nothing at all.

  15. #55
    Miserable Git unclepuncle's Avatar
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    (rockmeister)


    Imagine if they'd outlawed National Hunt racing 100 years ago - no memories of Arkle, Red Rum, Golden Miller, Desert Orchid etc - surely it would be a much poorer world for that. Of course they should continue to try to make racing as safe as possible for horse and jockey but it's never going to be without risk.
    'Master of Prescience'

  16. #56
    Super Dooper Wammer rockmeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbyrtp View Post
    Accidents can be avoided. Accidents waiting to happen more like. Pushing Rider and mount to the limit. Well the limit has really been met by the horses that get killed. Most of us never kill anything to eat we let others do that for us I'm glad to say and we hope that it is done painlessly. I have no sympathy for the riders as this is thier choice.
    Do you never drive faster than the speed limit? Drink one too many drinks? Swim out too far? Let your kids climb a slippery tree?/?
    There a thousand things we ALL do that imperil us and potentially others too...I'm sad for the horses of course. I'm sad for the soldiers killed in Afghanistan, for police dogs knifed by thugs, for spiders stamped on, for sledge dogs that break a leg, for the cow that died calfing, for chickens in battery houses, for the last sperm whales in the ocean and for the dead cat in the chinese kitchen. Man has to push a bit. Without a bit of push, we'd be sponges. Things get hurt sometimes. Life is tough, but exciting. I think that's my choice. However, I can distinguish between needless pain and a risk taken.
    still just watching clouds

  17. #57
    Super Wammer Manxstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cambs12 View Post
    I get your point.But these horses suffer far more pain after their fall.
    Sorry, but they don't. If one does fall it will be put to sleep way before the adrenaline wears off.
    Specifications subject to change because they just might.

  18. #58
    Good Love 69969 robbyrtp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmeister View Post
    Do you never drive faster than the speed limit? Drink one too many drinks? Swim out too far? Let your kids climb a slippery tree?/?
    There a thousand things we ALL do that imperil us and potentially others too...I'm sad for the horses of course. I'm sad for the soldiers killed in Afghanistan, for police dogs knifed by thugs, for spiders stamped on, for sledge dogs that break a leg, for the cow that died calfing, for chickens in battery houses, for the last sperm whales in the ocean and for the dead cat in the chinese kitchen. Man has to push a bit. Without a bit of push, we'd be sponges. Things get hurt sometimes. Life is tough, but exciting. I think that's my choice. However, I can distinguish between needless pain and a risk taken.
    No,no,no,no. I'm not a fool. You do it, after all that is your choice. Not the animal in question. That pays the ultimate price. DEATH. The thread is called The Grand National. So I don't quite see what farm animals have to do with it.
    If you can,t say anything nice say nothing at all.

  19. #59
    Wammer RichG's Avatar
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    Seems one unfortunate owner has learnt a lesson:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-17719966
    The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.

  20. #60
    Good Love 69969 robbyrtp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichG View Post
    Seems one unfortunate owner has learnt a lesson:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-17719966
    What a way to lose "a family pet"
    If you can,t say anything nice say nothing at all.

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