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  1. #61
    Super Wammer pure sound's Avatar
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    I think it's just the neon bulb. On one of my decks it doesn't work at all (maybe once every 6 month for a moment). Funnily enough given that the speed never visibly wanders or wavers it doesn't seem to be much use anyway!

    I have read of people replacing it with an orange LED & presumably an appropriate value of resistor but I haven't looked any further into what that would involve & where it'd go.

  2. #62
    HiFi Dealer Wammer BD Audio's Avatar
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    Mine did the same, sometimes works, sometimes not.

  3. #63
    Wammer
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    I think I'll just leave it be then.
    I read summat about replacing it with an led but it seemed a massive faff for something that has no effect on the sound.

  4. #64
    Super Dooper Wammer f1eng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure sound View Post
    I'd rather simply rely on the arm's mass and the compliance of the cartridge suspension to give the appropriate filter and make the the cartridge body appear immovable at audio frequencies.
    Unfortunately the system is too complicated/imperfect for this to happen in any available arm/cartridge.

    The only way for the cartridge body to be stationary relative to the record at audio frequencies would be to remove all damping from the cantilever suspension. This doesn't work since the first resonance -will- be excited, and undamped in most conventional arms, causing groove skipping etc. So cartridges, to be "universal" have to have damping in them, despite it being the wrong place. This has been known in the industry for over 40 years.
    The correct location of the system damping for what you describe to occur would be between the cartridge body and disc surface. This would damp out the first resonance without partially shorting out the audio frequencies between stylus and cartridge body.
    Shure made an attempt to do this in the 70s using a damped brush running on the disc surface. I have never heard one, but there was talk of the brush picking up groove modulation and transferring it to the cartridge body. Whether this is true, or just bias against anything different I don't know (!) it certainly would be possible to make the brush bristles bigger than the groove to make this unlikely. It was eventually dropped I believe.
    The Townshend solution is not the best solution, but probably would be better than any other IF ONLY A CARTRIDGE WITH NO CANTILEVER DAMPING WAS AVAILABLE As it is AFAIK ther is -no- cartridge available which would allow the superiority or otherwise of the Townshend approach to be verified.

    Having damping in a non-ideal place is probably not worse than having too much due to having it in 2 places, however potentially superior one of thease places is.

    Vibration entering the arm where it is mounted (and airborne too) definitely moves the cartridge body relative to the disc and produces an output. The best approach to minimising this that I have seen involved laser vibration measurement of the complete record deck an modifying the arm mount to minimise vibration there at audio frequencies. This is expensive engineering not available to all.

  5. #65
    Wammer
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    Interesting thread.
    I also had read some negative comments regarding the technics "obsidian" plinth.
    So I went to the expense of buying another SP-10MK2 and another EPA-100 and getting a high quality cld birch ply plinth
    made up to compare with my Technics SL-1000MK2.
    To cut a long story short , the original Technics plinth sounds better to me.
    A good tweak is to use Isonoe feet with the glass discs and sorbothane cups.....Isonoe will custom make a set to suit the turntables 23kg weight.

  6. #66
    Jedi Wammer fordy's Avatar
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    Thanks for that Mr SP10. :-)

    Glad I'm not a lone nut job then swimming against the tide.

    yes I suspect Isonoes might work quite well for me. I think Technics own plinths would be hard to beat actually. I will still mess with plinths in the future because I'm after a 12" arm on it so would need to try something bigger. Tempted to cut the plinth and widen it, pin it and infill with resin using a piece of Panzerholz for the bottom. Another idea I have is to use the existing one to make two moulds in plaster of Paris, then cut and shut them together in the right places so I can cast a wider and deeper resin/stone plinth.

    I'm enjoying trying different carts out on the deck at the moment and the deck is really singing just now. Well pleased with it.
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  7. #67
    Wammer dom_'s Avatar
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    To help your footfall problems fordy have you thought about a Townshend rack? Mine worked wonders with wooden floorboards and stopped the problem dead. The whole rack being isolated is very handy and saves all those bits and bobs you need at the moment under your deck.
    My current place has a concrete floor now, but the Townshend still sounded better than the deck sitting on a traditional stand with isolaton; atacama with sorbothane feet under the deck.

  8. #68
    Jedi Wammer fordy's Avatar
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    Sounds like I need to find a Townshend dealer in Japan! Cheers
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  9. #69
    Wammer
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    Fordy.....I would'nt butcher the plinth just to fit a 12 inch arm if I were you.
    These plinths are very good ,as you are finding out , a few negative comments on the internet are by people with a vested interest .....cottage industry types working in their back shed making wooden plinths or from people trying to justify an expensive purchase of one......most would not have even compared them properly to the original plinth.

    If you feel the need for a 12 inch arm try one of the Kuzma models , Ref 313 VTA and 4 point will fit on the technics plinth as they have a spindle to pivot distance of 212mm.

    The Technics SL-1000MK2 consists of SP-10MK2 turntable ,SH-10B3 plinth and EPA-100 tonearm.
    Matsushita corporation /Technics employ real engineers , the design of the whole package is excellent........I suggest as you are in Japan that you keep looking on Japanese yahoo auctions for a second hand Technics EPA-100 tonearm , it is an excellent performing arm and of course it is designed to be the perfect match with the plinth and TT.
    If you want something really special try to get hold of the Technics EPA-100MK2

  10. #70
    Jedi Wammer fordy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SP10 View Post
    If you feel the need for a 12 inch arm try one of the Kuzma models , Ref 313 VTA and 4 point will fit on the technics plinth as they have a spindle to pivot distance of 212mm.
    A 12" arm will have a spindle to pivot of around 300mm give or take... think about it.

    I read on VA that someone was actually succesful in mounting an SME3012 arm on the SH-B3 plinth. The armboard needs to be as wide as you can get it and they had to make some very minor mods to the back corner underneath for clearance.

    http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable...2d5e1f24f8f8e5

    I think an Jelco SA-750LB 12 incher might be a better bet as the Spindle to Pivot distance is only 290mm and the mounting base is not as big. It might just squeeze in without modification hopefully. Would have to ditch the lid though probably. Anyway I will find out soon. 750LB on it's way
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  11. #71
    Wammer
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    The Kuzma ref313 vta and Kuzma 4 point work differently.
    They are 12 inch arms specifically designed to fit standard 9 inch tonearm mount distances....
    Arm length is 313mm....but mounting distance , spindle to pivot is 212mm.

    http://cms.kuzma.si/AmplioCMS2/publi...US#menuId=1169

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SP10 View Post
    The Kuzma ref313 vta and Kuzma 4 point work differently.
    They are 12 inch arms specifically designed to fit standard 9 inch tonearm mount distances....
    Arm length is 313mm....but mounting distance , spindle to pivot is 212mm.

    http://cms.kuzma.si/AmplioCMS2/publi...US#menuId=1169
    Spindle to pivot is as you'd expect for a 12" arm, it's the mounting point which is different. They're not necessarily the same (although for most arms they are.)
    CD players - computer audio for dummies.

  13. #73
    Wammer
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    Correct , yes.....the mounting point is the same as for most 9 inch arms .
    But they are a 12 inch arm , with an effective length of 313mm.

    These two 12 inch tonearms were specifically designed for people.... like fordy , ...who want a 12 inch tonearm but don't have the plinth size accomodate one....which is why I suggested them.

  14. #74
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    yep and I think the Kuzma arms are superb.
    CD players - computer audio for dummies.

  15. #75
    Jedi Wammer fordy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SP10 View Post
    Correct , yes.....the mounting point is the same as for most 9 inch arms .
    But they are a 12 inch arm , with an effective length of 313mm.

    These two 12 inch tonearms were specifically designed for people.... like fordy , ...who want a 12 inch tonearm but don't have the plinth size accomodate one....which is why I suggested them.
    ahh yes, now I know which arms you mean. You are talking Spindle to the Mounting point rather than spindle to pivot.

    They do look like really nice tonearms. Solution if this Jelco won't fit easily. Thanks :-)
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  16. #76
    Wammer
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    Yep....sorry for the confusion.

  17. #77
    Super Wammer TheMooN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SP10 View Post
    Correct , yes.....the mounting point is the same as for most 9 inch arms .
    But they are a 12 inch arm , with an effective length of 313mm.

    These two 12 inch tonearms were specifically designed for people.... like fordy , ...who want a 12 inch tonearm but don't have the plinth size accomodate one....which is why I suggested them.

    A couple of interesting points made by a Kuzma dealer regarding the relative merits of 4 point and 313VTA IHO of course ~

    http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=vinyl&m=915413
    Last edited by TheMooN; 04-06-2012 at 03:44 PM.

  18. #78
    Wammer
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    4P is a terrific arm, an amazing improvement over standard stogi S or stogi reference. but - if you talk to franz kuzma, he may suggest you to consider 313VTA first. his (private) opinion is that a price difference is bigger than a sound difference and it's worth only if you are in league top of the top cartridges... AFAIK it's not the best seller so you may be able to negotiate a good discount at absolute sounds...
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  19. #79
    Super Wammer TheMooN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SP10 View Post
    The Technics SL-1000MK2 consists of SP-10MK2 turntable ,SH-10B3 plinth and EPA-100 tonearm.
    Matsushita corporation /Technics employ real engineers , the design of the whole package is excellent........I suggest as you are in Japan that you keep looking on Japanese yahoo auctions for a second hand Technics EPA-100 tonearm , it is an excellent performing arm and of course it is designed to be the perfect match with the plinth and TT.
    If you want something really special try to get hold of the Technics EPA-100MK2

    Have you completed the set with any of the EPC cartridges SP10 ?

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMooN View Post
    Have you completed the set with any of the EPC cartridges SP10 ?
    Yes ,...I've had a few of the EPC cartridges , and still have the EPC-205CMK4.
    Would love to get hold of a Technics EPC-P100CMK4 .

    I prefer to use good quality modern MC carts with my Technics decks though..........Lyra , Dynavector etc.

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