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Thread: 32 bit music

  1. #1
    Wammer barnacle bill's Avatar
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    32 bit music

    Anything out there for download?
    hollow log

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    Wammer
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    If 16 bit gives you a dynamic range of 96dB and 24 bit a dynamic range of 144dB and your ears bleed at 150dB why would anybody consider a 32 bit recording?
    Vinyl is real, everything digital is just an approximation.
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  3. #3
    Wammer barnacle bill's Avatar
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    Who the bloody hell knows Dave. All I do know us that my up and coming Dac is capable of reproducing 32 bit recordings, so if any are available then I would like to listen, even if my ears do bleed

    Next.
    Last edited by barnacle bill; 17-05-2012 at 09:40 PM.
    hollow log

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    Super Wammer
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    AFAIK master recordings are still only done at 24/192... so if there are any 32/384 tracks out there, they've probably just been upsampled.

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    Super Wammer Chumpy's Avatar
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    Good luck to us all.
    'Sometimes via the senses, mostly in the mind' (or pocket)...

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    Super Wammer bencat's Avatar
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    That is often the problem with the numbers game . If they are there and you have paid for them you rightly feel that you should be able to use them . Currently even in the esoteric small companies that are using HD recording I am not yet aware of any that have recorded at 32 bit. However with the new generation of chips being produced all capable of 32 bit (the number is bigger therfore it must be better ? Right ? ) it will not be too long before someone does and there will be downloads . Just wait a while and like the buses two will be along in a minute
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnacle bill View Post
    Who the bloody hell knows Dave. All I do know us that my up and coming Dac is capable of reproducing 32 bit recordings, so if any are available then I would like to listen, even if my ears do bleed

    Next.
    So it can break the laws of thermodynamics then. A lot of scientists will be very interested in that.

  8. #8
    Not from round here baltika_no_9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris217 View Post
    So it can break the laws of thermodynamics then.......
    Which ones?
    The world is filling up with entropy

  9. #9
    Bingo for all! browellm's Avatar
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    I reckon the 96dB of dynamic range available on CD is probably about enough. What's needed is a few recording engineers and industry "suits" who are willing to use a bit more than 6dB of it.

  10. #10
    The off-axis of evil Muddy Funster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baltika_no_9 View Post
    Which ones?
    The ninth law of thermodynamics. It's not that well known. It's something to do with stirring the food halfway through cooking.
    "Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted." Albert Einstein

  11. #11
    Bingo for all! browellm's Avatar
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    I think the ninth law came up in an episode of Judge John Deed recently.

  12. #12
    Not from round here baltika_no_9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Funster View Post
    The ninth law of thermodynamics. It's not that well known. It's something to do with stirring the food halfway through cooking.
    Mmm, the ninth eh? Now that IS something that might be of interest to scientists. As you can see from my signature line I'm more of a second law man myself.
    The world is filling up with entropy

  13. #13
    Wammer barnacle bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by browellm View Post
    I reckon the 96dB of dynamic range available on CD is probably about enough. .
    So do i, but it would be nice to listen to this material if was available hence the question.
    hollow log

  14. #14
    Wammer barnacle bill's Avatar
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    16 bit 96dbs

    24 bit 144dbs

    32 bit 192dbs

    That is ear bleeding material, now wondering the point of a 32bit DAC. Thats more a tech question though; processing power
    hollow log

  15. #15
    moor tuga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnacle bill View Post
    Anything out there for download?
    There's no such thing.

    The best 24bit music file (2L.no) I've analyzed mannaged a whooping 12bit or 72dB of dynamic range.
    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

  16. #16
    Wammer
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnacle bill View Post
    So do i, but it would be nice to listen to this material if was available hence the question.
    I agree, and if only someone would sell me high quality 24 bit 96k or 192k recordings at reasonable prices (i.e. much the same or less than current CDs), then I have my credit card ready and waiting. But worrying about 32 bit recordings is pointless. Computers work natively with 32 bits and a lot of the time it is just as easy to deal with 32 bits quantities as it is with 24 bit quantities, but our ears can't cope with the dynamic ranges beyond those encoded with 24 bit depths, and that is all there is to it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by baltika_no_9 View Post
    Which ones?
    Mostly the second law. It is all tied up with thermal noise and information entropy.

    I have done some quick calculations. Assuming an amplifier input with 2V sensitivity into 50K Ohms running at room temperature:

    32 bits at 6db/bit is a dynamic range of around 216dB. At full scale (32-bits), the amplifier input current is around 40uA. The current for 1 bit output is 9.3E-15A.

    I calculate the Johnson noise current alone at 300K as 8.14E-11A, making just this noise current around 8,700 times greater than the signal.

    To make use of 32-bit resolution, you would need to cool the whole of your audio system and your ears to below the temperature of liquid helium.

    Don't try this at home!

  18. #18
    moor tuga's Avatar
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    Let's not forget that the top full-range speakers (f. ex. B&W 800, ATC SCM300) have a specified maximum continuous SPL of around 120dB at 1 meter and most rooms have a noise floor of around 30dB.
    This means that with such speakers the useable dynamic range is below 90dB and that more ordinary loudspeakers will reduce this DR to values of 75-80dB (13bit).

    R
    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

  19. #19
    Wammer barnacle bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris217 View Post
    Mostly the second law. It is all tied up with thermal noise and information entropy.

    I have done some quick calculations. Assuming an amplifier input with 2V sensitivity into 50K Ohms running at room temperature:

    32 bits at 6db/bit is a dynamic range of around 216dB. At full scale (32-bits), the amplifier input current is around 40uA. The current for 1 bit output is 9.3E-15A.

    I calculate the Johnson noise current alone at 300K as 8.14E-11A, making just this noise current around 8,700 times greater than the signal.

    To make use of 32-bit resolution, you would need to cool the whole of your audio system and your ears to below the temperature of liquid helium.

    Don't try this at home!
    Dusted then...
    hollow log

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnacle bill View Post
    Dusted then...
    In practical terms, yes. A well designed sixteen-bit system will be sonically indistinguishable from a well designed system with a larger word size. Even with a 24-bit system, the lowest four to six bits will most likely just be noise. Going to 32 bits is just silly.

    The distortion produced by even the best loudspeakers is still orders of magnitude greater than that produced by a well designed sixteen-bit DAC.

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