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  1. #61
    Wammer rocky raccoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuga View Post
    After reading Genelec's advice on positioning I experimented (and measured) with different box-to-wall distances and my findings (see this thread) coincided with theirs:


    This means that your speakers should go back around 40 cm.

    My listening spot is right between the sofa and the TV so I put a small chair into place and move the sofa sideways whenever I'm listening:


    Cheers,
    R
    Nice speakers you have there. Never heard that flavour of spendor. I bet they sound gorgious.
    I started out with the speakers less than half a meter from the rear wall here (about 6 years ago). They have been creeping forward incrementally - but bass really isn't a problem here. Not at all. Closer to the wall shuts down the air.

    Ever tried some more exotic amplification with your speakers ? Of the monoblock variety ?
    The retrospectroscope - the most powerful tool in science.

  2. #62
    moor tuga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky raccoon View Post
    Nice speakers you have there. Never heard that flavour of spendor. I bet they sound gorgious.
    I started out with the speakers less than half a meter from the rear wall here (about 6 years ago). They have been creeping forward incrementally - but bass really isn't a problem here. Not at all. Closer to the wall shuts down the air.

    Ever tried some more exotic amplification with your speakers ? Of the monoblock variety ?
    They do sound very nice but look a bit on the hideous side, my wife hates them, my friends say I'm crazy for placing such things in the living room...

    I'm quite happy with this custom made integrated and haven't really felt like trying anything else except perhaps a valve amplifier of similar ilk.
    Might go active someday (if I can afford it) but I feel that treating the room and replacing the Spendors with sealed-box speakers would make more significant improvements.

    Ric
    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

  3. #63
    Wammer rocky raccoon's Avatar
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    The eyes have it

    Quote Originally Posted by tuga View Post
    They do sound very nice but look a bit on the hideous side, my wife hates them, my friends say I'm crazy for placing such things in the living room...

    I'm quite happy with this custom made integrated and haven't really felt like trying anything else except perhaps a valve amplifier of similar ilk.
    Might go active someday (if I can afford it) but I feel that treating the room and replacing the Spendors with sealed-box speakers would make more significant improvements.

    Ric
    I think they're lovely. I don't understand non audiophiles. They park these massive 1 cubic meter glass & iron -on veneer chipboard things in the middle of the joint to put their massive flat screen TV's with all the TV boxes, DVD players etc. underneath and that's fine. You put an elegant furniture grade loudspeaker which takes up a quarter of the floor space or less and they have a fit. Why should the eyes get preferential treatment ? You can have all that crap out of the way and hang the damn screen on the wall. TV & film might be entertaining but I wouldn't describe it as soothing the soul. Which do you think we need more of ? Oh no - I'm ranting.

    Have you tried resistive damping in the ports ? David Berriman uses packed drinking straws. Open cell foam would provide even more damping. It would be a darn sight cheaper than changing the speakers (if it worked). 'Course - you could move them further away from the rear wall ; )
    Last edited by rocky raccoon; 24-05-2012 at 10:43 PM.
    The retrospectroscope - the most powerful tool in science.

  4. #64
    moor tuga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky raccoon View Post
    I think they're lovely. I don't understand non audiophiles. They park these massive 1 cubic meter glass & iron -on veneer chipboard things in the middle of the joint to put their massive flat screen TV's with all the TV boxes, DVD players etc. underneath and that's fine. You put an elegant furniture grade loudspeaker which takes up a quarter of the floor space or less and they have a fit. Why should the eyes get preferential treatment ? You can have all that crap out of the way and hang the damn screen on the wall. TV & film might be entertaining but I wouldn't describe it as soothing the soul. Which do you think we need more of ? Oh no - I'm ranting.

    Have you tried resistive damping in the ports ? David Berriman uses packed drinking straws. Open cell foam would provide even more damping. It would be a darn sight cheaper than changing the speakers (if it worked). 'Course - you could move them further away from the rear wall ; )
    I will try the open cell foam, though I am not looking for less LF output (and if you look at my measurements you will see they are adequatly positioned) but for a better bass quality:


    Stedy state 1/3 octave, left speaker

    Even in good designs such as these Spendors, the reflex loading is no match for a sealed-box topology in low frequency reproduction; try to listen to a pair of BW801Fs (Serge's?) and focus your attention on clarity, frequency gradations and transient response.
    I listen mostly to orchestral music and I can assure that the difference is more than a little obvious.

    Ric
    Last edited by tuga; 25-05-2012 at 08:24 AM. Reason: typo
    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

  5. #65
    Wam Fooodly doo di da vacdac's Avatar
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    This is really good news for me as I have mine around 34cm off the rear wall & to maximize room space etc. I can't really pull them much more forward into the room, if I want to maximize floor space. This is something I've had the usual Audiophool angst about for some time, lol .

    Other than that it looks like I've got toe in, speaker distances & clearances from sidewall boundaries pretty much spot on, or at least close to the best compromise I can achieve. I've got my new replacement power amp & mark 2 crossover boards arriving late/morning early afternoon. I somehow doubt I'm going to get round to the crossover/speaker surgery today, but hopefully by this W/end or early next week....I am thinking tho' that once I've done this that I may need to do some small amount of tweaking re positioning of the speakers & also possibly to the crossover configuration i.e. bass/treble level settings & also to the in room tuning options i.e. ports, sealed box/semi sealed box etc. Hours of fun & fiddling, no doubt

    Cheers Fellas.

    Chris ooooooooooot
    Quote Originally Posted by tuga View Post
    After reading Genelec's advice on positioning I experimented (and measured) with different box-to-wall distances and my findings (see this thread) coincided with theirs:


    This means that your speakers should go back around 40 cm.

    My listening spot is right between the sofa and the TV so I put a small chair into place and move the sofa sideways whenever I'm listening:


    Cheers,
    R
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Cat View Post
    yeah, just moved my speakers back towards to wall from around 65cm to about 40cm and there is a marked rise in the bass...
    Last edited by vacdac; 25-05-2012 at 11:19 AM.
    Gyro, Jelly750d, Oyaide MJ-12, AT33EV/OC9ml ii/F3iii, Rondo Red carts, Icon audio PS 1.2 phono, C.A. Stream Magic 6, Oppo BDP,(Synology DS715/Acer timeline X lappy. Alva Nanoface) M.F. A1fbp/Schiit Lyr2 pre's, XTZ ap100 power, XTZ99.36 speaks, x-can v8, AKG Q701

  6. #66
    Super Wammer awkwardbydesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuga View Post
    They do sound very nice but look a bit on the hideous side, my wife hates them, my friends say I'm crazy for placing such things in the living room...
    In about 1970 some friends wallpapered their big speakers with a large flower print design. Just ask your wife to pick the wallpaper.

  7. #67
    Wam Fooodly doo di da vacdac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awkwardbydesign View Post
    In about 1970 some friends wallpapered their big speakers with a large flower print design. Just ask your wife to pick the wallpaper.
    Gyro, Jelly750d, Oyaide MJ-12, AT33EV/OC9ml ii/F3iii, Rondo Red carts, Icon audio PS 1.2 phono, C.A. Stream Magic 6, Oppo BDP,(Synology DS715/Acer timeline X lappy. Alva Nanoface) M.F. A1fbp/Schiit Lyr2 pre's, XTZ ap100 power, XTZ99.36 speaks, x-can v8, AKG Q701

  8. #68
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    Have been trying to use ikea racks as a false wall as it is a bit to wide apart other wise.
    Also poxy sofa gets in the way.


  9. #69
    Depression Vortex kernow's Avatar
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    Nice space between em, some vintage quad too hehe. Bet that gives you a lovely soundstage.
    If you're reading a thread I've created it's probably to do with something breaking or not going to plan again.

  10. #70
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    About 9 or 10 foot apart.

  11. #71
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    Interesting thread.

    My room is 21' 6" by 12" 6". Have tried various systems firing down long axis, and across the room and, like others here, have found the long axis to be much better. Listening chair is 9' from the speaks which are themselves 9' apart. Bookshelves adjacent to speaks both sides damp wall reflections very well. Speaks are 4" from front wall.

    I had a very trying time getting speakers to work well in this room. Positioning ProAc 3.8s, Vandy 2 sigs and PMC IB1s according to the Cardas method tamed the bass boom to some extent but it never sounded satisfactory. I think things might have been better with serious room treatment but such stuff was a) not readily available then and b) would have had my wife hoiking me out of the house on my ear on account of the visual brutalism. My amplification was very different then, of course - a pair of Bryston 7Bs and a BP25 pre.

    The ANEs took away room-boom misery at a stroke.
    Last edited by KevinF; 13-06-2012 at 05:49 AM.

  12. #72
    Depression Vortex kernow's Avatar
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    Follow up to my speaker positioning / seat positiion journey:

    Last friday night I drank myself unconscious and awoke at 4am in my listening seat puking all over myself. I've had to move the listening seat forwards 2 feet to cover the un-removable stain on the carpet and I now have a perfect equilateral triangle. erm.. result?
    If you're reading a thread I've created it's probably to do with something breaking or not going to plan again.

  13. #73
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    Top work.

  14. #74
    Depression Vortex kernow's Avatar
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    If you're reading a thread I've created it's probably to do with something breaking or not going to plan again.

  15. #75
    Depression Vortex kernow's Avatar
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    Just chunks of chicken I'm afraid. Cracked open a 1L of makers mark that night and woke up the next day with half of it left, and I had about 5 500ml beers too. Winner.

    I've never felt so bad as I did on saturday
    If you're reading a thread I've created it's probably to do with something breaking or not going to plan again.

  16. #76
    Super Wammer awkwardbydesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kernow View Post
    I'm gonna take some pics now, sod it!

    edit: ok prepare to laugh at my misery of compromise. The brown tape on the floor was where I did have the speakers up until a couple of days ago where I decided to play about again. The Dali's are supposed to work best with no toe-in, but due to my sodding fireplace when they are with no toe-in the left one fires straight into the fireplace, I prefer to have them into the corners a bit more so I can at least fire it out into the room and have a couple of feet more width. I'd say they are about 8ft apart and at a guess I sit about 9-10ft away, maybe more or less.

    My attempt to get an almost equilateral listening triangle, the listening seat is at least a good 2-3ft from the back wall.


    Speaker placed precariously in corner sadly, but if you look where it was *brown tape markings* it was a bit narrower width and firing into the tiled fireplace



    BTW, do you use that fireplace for fires? I had a very similar one in Manchester, and put my big valve amp in it. After blocking off the chimney first!

  17. #77
    Depression Vortex kernow's Avatar
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    Nah, it actually has a chimney sock in it to prevent heat loss, and someone offered me the electric fire which I just shoved in there, it's not plugged in. I don't think I could fit my kit in there mind. I wouldn't mind ripping it off the wall one day and bricking it up but the chimney breast would still be there so theres not a great deal of point really going through all that effort.

    I've brought the speakers in 6" each widthwise now because it got rid of a little bit of boom caused by the left hand side alcove. And I haven't tried it since moving the listening seat up parallel with the start of the left hand side of the fireplace yet.
    Last edited by kernow; 18-06-2012 at 04:10 PM.
    If you're reading a thread I've created it's probably to do with something breaking or not going to plan again.

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