Audio Emotion  Epiphany Acoustics 
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  1. #61
    Pie man JVS's Avatar
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    No Chris there’s deffo nowt wrong with the room! ……….In fact I’m deeply jealous of that room


    Cheers for a super session on Thursday Steve - a bake off with a purpose – great fun!

    My thoughts then:

    I too was initially impressed with the horns, they sounded fast, open and detailed from the off. Imaging good too - a nice sweet spot in the middle, which I like. After listening to several tracks though, I began to feel that they were suited to some types of music far more than others. The source, as you mentioned Steve, also made a big difference. They were much more comfortable with unplugged/acoustic type music. The big issue for me was the upper/mid bass which sounded quite forced; I also thought the treble was slightly grainy (particularly with the Nagra) The best feature of the horns was the midrange but this was sometimes very slightly coloured on female vocals.


    The OBs sounded more or less like I expected they would ( I’ve listened to Adam’s quite a lot) – less dynamic than the horns but more natural sounding too, particularly in the bass where they were both extended and detailed. The greencones have a lovely smooth quality to the treble which was much more suited to the highly detailed top of the Nagra. After listening to the horns though, the OB’s midrange sounded a bit sucked out with vocals quite far back in the mix.


    To sum up, as others have mentioned, a mixed bag; the horns sounded better with your streamer playing acoustic and the Obs sounded better with the Nagra (and Steve’s MF) playing rock.

    Not sure if the bake has helped you choose really Steve!!

  2. #62
    Moderator myrman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS View Post
    No Chris there’s deffo nowt wrong with the room! ……….In fact I’m deeply jealous of that room


    Me too. I bet some Wilsons would sound good in there

  3. #63
    Moderator Cambs12's Avatar
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    Agree.I think it was mean of Jim not to bring them along as a comparison

  4. #64
    Wammer Hornucopia's Avatar
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    Room size?
    You're right, Jim! I was just being ironic; I've often expressed the idea that my own room is too small!
    And that was a reason I shed my own Av-Duos. If they had a problem driving Steve's room......it indicates the space!
    I WAS lucky, once, to have a room a bit like Steve's though, in the 80s!

    But small rooms can be like big headphones (as someone once described my set-up! (Dave Hewitt, RIP)
    Tolerance is not a Sapiens characteristic.

  5. #65
    Grumpy sod steve rb's Avatar
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    I agree with a lot of what Jim has summarised actually - very accurate and valid comments. It's also made me step back with a bit of perspective having read and heard all the comments - we are clearly individuals with pretty good ears and fairly extensive experience of high end hifi, we're talking shades of perfection here, these are both extremely capable transducers that will both knock spots off most things manufacturers would care to try in here. There is no ideal solution, just interpretations to suit different musical tastes and rooms. Paul sent me some very valid comments in a pm too which I think could be worth summarising when I'm not trying to type on my bloody phone!
    "Don't wish for it, Work for it" www.bodyfitnesspt.com

  6. #66
    moor tuga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve rb View Post
    I liked them both, which is damn frustrating, but ultimately rewarding as I may keep them both! I suspect a new crossover could be on the cards with better bits and an effort to smooth the last of that 30hz hump. We also need to remember that the Hornings are alledgedly flat to 20Hz, BUT my 845s are not, they have a notable and designed roll off from mid 30s so you wont get that last octave with them ANYWAY - next time around I'd like to invite some bigger amps along to see what these could do with a 20Hz signal.
    Your amps will probably have a high output impedance and the frequency response will mimic the speaker's load to a point.
    Mating flat FR speakers with such amplifiers means very little.

    R



    P.S.: have you experimented with the Hørnings' positioning?
    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

  7. #67
    Grumpy sod steve rb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuga View Post
    Your amps will probably have a high output impedance and the frequency response will mimic the speaker's load to a point.
    Mating flat FR speakers with such amplifiers means very little.

    R

    P.S.: have you experimented with the Hørnings' positioning?

    Sorry Ric, I'm a numpty - in what way? mimic how and what do you mean by 'means very little'

    Havent played around at all really, tho Paul also reckons they are too far out into the room as they need to be about 0.5m from the corners, which they are not....
    Away at the mo but when I'm back I'll have a proper sort out with the XTZ mic again and play with the locations.
    "Don't wish for it, Work for it" www.bodyfitnesspt.com

  8. #68
    moor tuga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve rb View Post
    Sorry Ric, I'm a numpty - in what way? mimic how and what do you mean by 'means very little'
    Hi Steve,

    There's this very straighforward article on Stereophile about the subject: Questions of Impedance Interaction by Thomas J. Norton

    What happens is that the combined frequency response of a high output impedance amplifier and a given loudspeaker will be affected by the former's latter's load.
    Here's one example:


    Stereophiles "dummy" load
    (intended to resemble a small two-way sealed-box speaker)


    Prima Luna Prologue One

    As you can see from this example, the PL1's response "assumes" the shape of the "dummy" load.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve rb View Post
    Havent played around at all really, tho Paul also reckons they are too far out into the room as they need to be about 0.5m from the corners, which they are not....
    Away at the mo but when I'm back I'll have a proper sort out with the XTZ mic again and play with the locations.
    Looking forward to read about the results.

    Cheers,
    Ric
    Last edited by tuga; 07-06-2012 at 07:24 PM. Reason: error corrected
    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

  9. #69
    Grumpy sod steve rb's Avatar
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    So what if the natural roll off of the TUBES themselves is 30Hz and 16kHz - and the speaker load is assumedly flat from 20 to 20k - does that mean the amp would follow the flat speaker load to within its own frequency response limits?
    "Don't wish for it, Work for it" www.bodyfitnesspt.com

  10. #70
    moor tuga's Avatar
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    I don't think you'd be so lucky...anyway, such speaker doesn't exist, does it?
    "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." - Winston Churchill

  11. #71
    Frugalphile Howlindawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve rb View Post
    We didn't get much into that, but what was very significant and had the digital guys among us scratching heads was the back-to-back AB switching of Jims Nagra and my streamed lossless rip, BOTH into the MDAC, now they shouldn't be different right? As a properly ripped EAC lossless file cannot be worse than an on-the-fly read from any transport. Well there was a huge difference. I think only long term listening would say which was 'right' but the Nagra was much more toppy, highly etched, detailed and 'there', the lossless rip, sounded much duller by comparison. Very interesting indeed and has made me question the whole source topic. And no Mark, that doesn't mean a turntable....
    At the risk of opening a can of worms...

    I've been considering options for upgrading my digital front end and recently had the chance to compare my SBT into an MDAC to a Wadia CDP used as transport into the same MDAC in the same system. ie: the only change was the transport and the digital cable connecting it to the MDAC. Both sources sounded excellent and neither of us could tell them apart even after a couple of hours listening.

    This makes me even more curious about whatever it is the Nagra is doing different and why people seem to prefer it.
    The truth may be out there, but the lies are inside your head.

  12. #72
    Grumpy sod steve rb's Avatar
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    Oh that can was already proper opened.....

    http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread...eaming-Discuss
    "Don't wish for it, Work for it" www.bodyfitnesspt.com

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