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  1. #21
    Super Wammer NAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizons View Post
    What did I tell you....?
    I know....sorry!

  2. #22
    Wammer Fatmarley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizons View Post
    Well, I have heard speaker cables change the sound of a system. I really don't care what some people claim about this as I've heard it and I challenge any wammers with a measuring meter to disprove what my ears tell me. Of course, there is a limit to how far the cable obsession can go and some retailers/manufacturers exploit people.

    The problem with the Wam is that once you say this you are viewed as a screaming, swivel eyed fundamentalist. You are a brave man for posting this message.
    So have I but it's easier and more fun to laugh at people, so.......


    Ha ha ha ha ha you're crazy, delusional or suffering from exectation bias. Not only that, but everyone knows the earth if flat.. Ha, ha, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.

  3. #23
    Super Wammer NAM's Avatar
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    I actually wasn't taking the piss. It was a genuine question/possible explanation...

  4. #24
    Deaf Wammer Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizons View Post
    Well, I have heard speaker cables change the sound of a system. I really don't care what some people claim about this as I've heard it and I challenge any wammers with a measuring meter to disprove what my ears tell me. Of course, there is a limit to how far the cable obsession can go and some retailers/manufacturers exploit people.

    What would you like measured?


    The problem with the Wam is that once you say this you are viewed as a screaming, swivel eyed fundamentalist. You are a brave man for posting this message.
    I didn't think the Op had posted any message, he asked a question, Have you heard .........?
    Most people have answered with an unequivocal 'No'
    "We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap" Kurt Vonnegut

  5. #25
    Wammer
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    All cabling has electrical parameters (resistance,inductance and capacitance) which are generally tiny and insignificant as far as audio is concerned. Speakers have these characteristics but rather more so.
    All good, well designed amplifiers are unconditionally stable in that they should be immune to these reactive loads.
    Unfortunately, however, not all are... I'm not going to name NAMES (ahem) or I'd be up the CREEK heading for CAMBRIDGE.......

    What can happen is the amp can become unstable and produce ultrasonic (and much higher) oscillations. It can be contniuuos or appear on parts of the audio waveform.
    This causes audio distortion and it is this that people hear as differences between cables.

    Usually with no signal the amp is OK, but putting a sinewave through and increasing the volume, then bursts of oscillation appear at certain parts of the waveform.
    I had one amp in that would oscillate at VHF and was detectable on an FM radio!

    Regards
    Henry

  6. #26
    forger pmac's Avatar
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    Strap yourselves in chaps
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  7. #27
    Half man half cucumber johnniebaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    I didn't think the Op had posted any message, he asked a question, Have you heard .........?
    Most people have answered with an unequivocal 'No'

    I'm not crazy, my reality is just different to yours.............................

  8. #28
    Too many turntables Beobloke's Avatar
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    Can a change of speaker cable affect your soundstage? Yes.

    Can moving your head six inches affect your soundstage? Yes.

    Make of this what you will...
    Instant human being - just add coffee. Do not stir.

  9. #29
    Acc shut see Purité North
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    OP - have you perhaps just wired one of your speakers out-of-phase?

  10. #30
    Pac67
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    OP - have you heard this effect with various recordings or just with a few? Sometimes a change of gear or cabling can affect the way recordings are presented, either bringing you closer to the quality of the recording (or lack of) or the opposite. I've recently changed amps, speakers and cables! The differences are not subtle, but yes, I have heard these differences between speaker cables before. Unlike one of the previous postings, its not just that amps which exhibit extreme sensitivity to reactive loads that real the culprits (I won't Naim naims) as the manufactures usually recommend a particular cable to use with them (which has the required electrical parameters) but many amps can be sensitive to highly capacitative loads. Where some may not notice much difference between IC's, IMHO loudspeaker cables can have a more marked effect...as can drawing the curtains, introducing soft furnishings or sitting off-axis.

  11. #31
    Subsequently Unresponsive loosend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beobloke View Post
    Can a change of speaker cable affect your soundstage? Yes.

    Can moving your head six inches affect your soundstage? Yes.

    Make of this what you will...
    Very tree Adam, even pulling ur listening seat away from a rear wall by 6 inches, tweeters at head height etc etc, I suspect most of the critics here are too pissed to notice these subtle changes when they listen to some tunes in the evening!

  12. #32
    forger pmac's Avatar
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    small movements in listening position OR speaker position can make a huge difference with ML electrostatics
    Forging away

  13. #33
    Wammer awkwardbydesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloth-Ears View Post
    Yes, certainly.

    But even more pronounced upon the soundstage pincing effect is that caused by poor layout and dressing. I have found, through extensive experimentation, that the best technique for avoidance is through the use of ( non static ) balloons to keep the wire off carpet and metal racks - and I do stress non static. You can obtain this type of balloon on Ebay. I suggest balloon because of the versatility of size they can be inflated to and because it has the right resonance absorbing properties. Special wood blocks are all very well but through experimentation ( and IMO of course ) I find the balloon material to be superior in this regard.

    Now, as to which cable types are best for avoiding dimunition of soundstage, that's an open ended question and it's up to you to make your own journey with that, but the big point I wanted to make in my reply here is that this is the lesser concern. The most difference is to be found in the cable dressing.
    If you are any good at making balloon animals, then the cables won't fall off. Maybe I have found a new career opportunity!

  14. #34
    Super Wammer
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmac View Post
    small movements in listening position OR speaker position can make a huge difference with ML electrostatics
    As they can with Quad electrostatics. I was somewhat surprised (and pleased) to discover that moving my RH speaker 2cm to the left and my LH speaker 1.5cm back has considerably improved the stereo imaging of my speakers.

  15. #35
    forger pmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clap View Post
    Has anyone experienced speaker cables reducing the soundstage in terms of depth and width?
    I think I may have the answer to this. Just one more piece of information required,













    what colour are they?
    Forging away

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAM View Post
    I actually wasn't taking the piss. It was a genuine question/possible explanation...
    My apologies! I'd had a couple of pints when I replied - perhaps paranoia got the better of me. The speakers didn't need to be moved in order to change cables. They are rooted to the ground wiith spikes. Contact surfaces were cleaned etc to avoid the possibilty that such things might account for any differences. I'm sorry folks, but Townshend Isolda speaker cables make my system sound different than Kimber 8TC. (Incidentally, I was sober when I swapped cables.)

    I've noticed less activity on the Wam as of late, which is probably due to the recession and people buying less kit. But I do sometimes wonder if it's because the view that 'absolutely nothing makes a blind bit of difference to a hifi system, except perhaps speakers' has become pervasive in recent months, which causes people to stay away from the website.

    I really have heard speaker cables make some difference, maybe not a massive one and certainly not as much as new equipment (and of course obsessives take the cable thing too far), and that's that.


    Oh dear - perhaps I'm getting paranoid again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by awkwardbydesign View Post
    If you are any good at making balloon animals, then the cables won't fall off. Maybe I have found a new career opportunity!
    On a different matter entirely, I note you have Ming Da and Parasound amps. Do you have the Parasound A21 and a Ming Da pre amp? How do they match?
    Last edited by wizons; 14-06-2012 at 09:27 PM.

  17. #37
    Acc shut see Purité North
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizons View Post
    My apologies! I'd had a couple of pints when I replied - perhaps paranoia got the better of me. The speakers didn't need to be moved in order to change cables. They are rooted to the ground wiith spikes. Contact surfaces were cleaned etc to avoid the possibilty that such things might account for any differences. I'm sorry folks, but Townshend Isolda speaker cables make my system sound different than Kimber 8TC. (Incidentally, I was sober when I swapped cables.)

    I've noticed less activity on the Wam as of late, which is probably due to the recession and people buying less kit. But I do sometimes wonder if it's because the view that 'absolutely nothing makes a blind bit of difference to a hifi system, except perhaps speakers' has become pervasive in recent months, which causes people to stay away from the website.

    I really have heard speaker cables make some difference, maybe not a massive one and certainly not as much as new equipment (and of course obsessives take the cable thing too far), and that's that.

    Ah, not wholly surprised by this - you could barely have two more different cables in their electrical characteristics: the Isolda is a deliberately high capacitance/low inductance flat-ribbon design, the absolute complete opposite is true of the Kimber's high-inductance woven design. Ironically after all the dismissive comments, these two cables should exhibit measurably different LCR values at audio frequencies.

  18. #38
    Super Wammer
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    Ah, not wholly surprised by this - you could barely have two more different cables in their electrical characteristics: the Isolda is a deliberately high capacitance/low inductance flat-ribbon design, the absolute complete opposite is true of the Kimber's high-inductance woven design. Ironically after all the dismissive comments, these two cables should exhibit measurably different LCR values at audio frequencies.
    Thank you sir. Is this proof that I am not entirely deluded!

  19. #39
    Super Wammer mikehit's Avatar
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    They aren't mutually exclusive

  20. #40
    Thai wammer ob1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvet View Post
    I buy longer than I need speaker cable runs . I loop these beyond the outside edge of the speaker and it increases soundstage
    Are you serious? or joking?
    Authorized retailer for TAD Labs, Vertex AQ, Soulution Audio, Brodmann, Clones Audio, Benz micro, AMG Turntable, Ziro Audio cables, , Airtight, M2Tech, Shelter

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