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  1. #1681
    Super Wammer JANDL100's Avatar
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    Hmmm ... the 8200CDQ gets mixed reviews - mainly cos of the onboard pre-amp, which is said to be the clinical element in the package.
    I've heard a 8200CD CD player at home and was very impressed.
    Did you hear the 8200CD or just the CDQ, SS?
    Life's too short for boring hifi!

  2. #1682
    Founding Wammer SSM's Avatar
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    Both Jerry. The 8200CDQ was demo'd with its pre going into Exposure 3010S power amp. For all the ballyhoo over at that pfm thread about how good the CDQ's pre is, I wasn't that convinced. The CDQ's Dac sound was very nice, but it didn't knock me out in the way I was expecting.

    Before I got the Rega DAC today, I was contemplating trying the M-DAC next year. That's the 8200CDQ minus the crappy cd drawer and housed in a smaller sturdier box. The Quad 909 has ceased to be the centre of my main rig and with it goes my obsession about a cdp-cum-preamp unit. So this upcoming M-DAC could be me giving JW's design a second chance. I hear that supplies outside Blighty could be scarce in the first half of 2012. Will probably play with a Moon 100D first, as I hear its a real rival to the Rega DAC.

    But really, after tonite's musical buffet from the Rega DAC, I doubt the M-DAC is going to outdo this marvel from Essex.


    SS

    ps: why are you defending audiolab? Last I read you, weren't you all gaga over MF's M1 DAC?
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  3. #1683
    Super Wammer dudywoxer's Avatar
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    Bloody hell solid, you'll be buying a P7 and stack of vinyl next.

    You have managed during your recent twitterings to express my views on the rega sound better than I could. One of my friends, (yes I have some) always claims that that all rega boxes have a simple rule designed in, that being bugger the system, just listen to the music. If you would like a recording of female voice that will 'show off' the elicit see if you can find anything by Christine Collister, especially 'Love' on Rega Records. She is Manx, but don't hold that against her.
    Music is an outburst of the soul

  4. #1684
    Founding Wammer SSM's Avatar
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    Better to be a Regaist than an audiolabrador, Dudy!
    Build quality on Elicit and DAC is so much sturdier than the 8200 chinese biscuit tins.

    To be fair, I'm not dissing JW's achievements but personal tastes have steered my preference towards the Rega sound. Diana Krall was handled quite differently by the audiolab: the CDQ projected her voice out of the speakers with startling precision but then cast it in an analytic x-ray that made me hear it as being made up of a gazillion pixels. It's a 'fluorescent'-like effect.

    Tonite the DAC made me quite smitten with Ms Krall's voice. It didn't dissect her sound into nanopixels but cast it out as a moving column of air that was naturally breathy. The Elicit-DAC's rootedness and control in the bass made it such that when she held a note in 'Quiet Nights' and slowly raised it towards her higher register, the effect was incredibly sensuous - transiting from deep chocolatey to a light flute-y top. Shivers down the spine! Rega really veers towards reproducing the dimensionality of performers. So tactile and effortlessly natural. (ps: the background strings on that Krall song were very sensuously rendered too. Lush!)

    I will definitely check out Ms Collister's music, ta.


    SS
    Last edited by SSM; 26-09-2011 at 04:51 PM.
    CONRAD-JOHNSON HD3, ET3SE & CLASSIC SIXTY SE, ICON AUDIO LA4 MKIII > NAIM NAP 100
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  5. #1685
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    SSM, any thoughts on the potential of the Elac BS184? They can be had here for a mere 425 at the moment, down from 950.

  6. #1686
    Founding Wammer SSM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Evans View Post
    SSM, any thoughts on the potential of the Elac BS184? They can be had here for a mere 425 at the moment, down from 950.
    Sorry James, I have no experience of those. Apart from my BS244, the other ELAC I've heard is HFW awardee, the BS243.

    At that price, the BS184 could be worthy of a fling. It doesn't sport the crystal-faceted pressed aluminium cone of the 240 range though. I'll wager that this proprietary design is what gives the 240 standmounts bass that is so clear and low in distortion.

    cheerSS
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  7. #1687
    Super Wammer JANDL100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSM View Post
    ps: why are you defending audiolab? Last I read you, weren't you all gaga over MF's M1 DAC?
    Well ... someone (Phil aka The Count) brought his Audiolab 8200CD over when I had that Forum Fad Young DAC for a while. More than gave the Young a run for its money in terms of clarity and focus. I was fairly smitten.
    Nope, I've not tried an MF M1 DAC.

    Sure, I've disliked other AudioLab products as being too clinical and uber-etched - but the 8200CD didn't strike me that way, on a half hours worth of listening at any rate. Methinks it has made its way onto my Want List.
    But then I like the more upfront type of sound.
    ... having said that, I don't think I've ever tried a Rega product ... well, except for a RB300/250 tonearm or two. I certainly don't recall any electronics. Mayhap I should try an rdac thingy?
    Life's too short for boring hifi!

  8. #1688
    Founding Wammer SSM's Avatar
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    Jerry, if you prefer a more upfront sound, could you then please try the Moon 100D or 300D? I hear say that these canuck dacs have lots of zip and pizzazz. Probably closer up your alley than the Rega DAC or rDAC. (I'll be grateful to you if you'd test the Moony waters first.)

    I appreciate your putting in a good word for the 8200s' sonic quality as I trust your discernment. However, I'd have to say your rationalizing my less than overwhelming experience of the 8200CDQ on the basis that its preamp section may be dodgy is a bit funny as it flies in the face of the reams of explanation given by the designer himself on that gigantic pfm thread: how no preamp is the best preamp, digital attenuation is the best way to hear the Sabre dac lalala... It remains that I wasn't bowled over in my demo of the the CDQ as dac-preamp.

    That said, I'll prolly have a dalliance with the cutesy M-DAC when it comes to Tipoca and see how it sounds into my Elicit and other amps.


    cheerSS
    Last edited by SSM; 26-09-2011 at 05:19 PM.
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  9. #1689
    Super Wammer JANDL100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSM View Post
    I appreciate your putting in a good word for the 8200s' sonic quality as I trust your discernment. However, I'd have to say your rationalizing my less than overwhelming experience of the 8200CDQ on the basis that its preamp section may be dodgy is a bit funny as it flies in the face of the reams of explanation given by the designer himself on that gigantic pfm thread ....
    I'm not trying to rationalise anything, SS. I am merely regurgitating what I recall reading in a review somewhere that the pre section was a bit on the stark side. I can't recall where that review was though! As I said, I've not heard the CDQ and was impressed by the 8200CD.

    The Rega stuff doesn't sound like my cuppa char ... 'musicality' is too often an excuse for lack of rez, in my book.

    Moon stuff - well, if one comes along at the right price. I'm more likely to be tempted by a 8200CD.
    Life's too short for boring hifi!

  10. #1690
    Super Wammer The Count's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JANDL100 View Post
    As I said, I've not heard the CDQ
    Oh, but you have Jerry

    My CDQ was just set to 0db.

    One thing we really noticed in your setup was how much difference the filter settings made. You very much preferred the Optimum Transient, which is what most people find and is not the one that measures best...

    It might be interesting to bring the cdq up again sometime and try it straight into your Parasound - see how the digital pre does

  11. #1691
    Super Wammer JANDL100's Avatar
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    Wot? Yours is a CDQ? Doh!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Count View Post
    It might be interesting to bring the cdq up again sometime and try it straight into your Parasound - see how the digital pre does
    Yes, please!!!
    Life's too short for boring hifi!

  12. #1692
    Founding Wammer SSM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JANDL100 View Post
    The Rega stuff doesn't sound like my cuppa char ... 'musicality' is too often an excuse for lack of rez, in my book.


    Seriously, after listening to the DAC all night I can't say its resolution is lacking. I noticed subtle new details emerging from familiar music. They are just not in-yer-face... like the audiolab.

    Before the passionate pink fishy 8200 mob comes over for a lynching, let me just say that my opinion of the CDQ is subject to change. I needed two demos with different ancillaries before deciding on my new amp, so it is possible I will be more impressed with the CDQ on a second hearing in a different environment. (What's not going to change is that filmsy casework and cd drawer. Nah, a M-DAC demo will likely be my next encounter with JW's design.)

    At this moment I'm very contented on the digital front. Perving new cable porn to enhance my system is tops on my agenda now.

    SS
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  13. #1693
    Founding Wammer SSM's Avatar
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    Rega Round-up: the Apollo, Saturn and Brio-R

    Yesterday was a pleasant day at the Rega dealer's where I got to play with other Rega products before taking my DAC home. I was curious to see how the DAC stacked up against the Apollo and Saturn, both of whom double-dipped HFC's cdp awards in the same year they came out, 2006 iirc. It's easy to hear that these three sources share the Rega imprimature for digital sonics whose traits are: rhythmic elan, smooth-flowing mids, an absence of metallic treble harshness, and with certain music, a turntable-like performance. With the Apollo, I reckon that the DAC's arrival has made it redundant. This oldest Rega spinner sounds a tad undernourished in comparison. Against the Saturn, hmmm, it comes down to personal preferences. I have to agree with fellow Eliciter CultureCrammer that the DAC (which has the newer Wolfson 8742 DACs) is more full-bodied, especially in the bass where its chunkiness contrasts with the Saturn's spry reediness. The Saturn is probably more amp-friendly and best matched to bass-confident floorstanders. As I no longer use CDs, I don't forsee myself getting another cd spinner anymore, so DAC it is for me.

    When I got the Elicit I said that I'm unlikely to buy another amp in my lifetime, but it doesn't mean that I'm not going to buy half an amp. I have a strong fetish for half-width amps (owned all of MF's X series in the past) and the new Brio-R is very delectable in the flesh. I certainly liked what I heard. It's not an Elicit with half the power though. So the Elicit's high resolution and tube-like fluidity are not quite on the cards, nor is pairing with 4-ohm Elacs or Dyns ideal. But I can see it working some magic with Dyn's easier-load DM 2/6 or even 2/7.

    In use, I didn't get the impression that this 50-watter Rega had the dynamic reserves of my previous MF shoeboxes the X-A1 (50W), X-80 (55W), and X-150 (105W), or my current X-A2 (75W) and X-T100 (BIG 50W!), so it restricts choices for ambitious speaker upgrades. But I'll say this, used within its power range the Brio-R sounds wonderfully natural with good reproduction of instrumental tonalities; which seems to be a Rega virtue. And it is devoid of the slight greyness and sibiliance that marred the treble of my X-150 (a 800 amp and EISA award winner in its time). It is also rhythmically adept and casts a decent, layered soundstage. And there is more dynamic backbone than an Italian shoebox I'd coveted in the past, the 475 Audio Analogue Primo Settanta (70W), which will be warm and soft-sounding in comparison. The stop-gap NAD C326BEE I had last year is punchier but it suffers from a softened treble, veiled midrange and mid-bass looseness which are mercifully absent in the Brio-R. Bravo! I like this Brio-R and may replace my flower-shop X-A2 with it when the time comes.

    For now I'm not stepping into the Rega shop till next year lest I develop the enabler-addict relationship I had with my MF dealer.


    SS
    Last edited by SSM; 30-09-2011 at 05:02 AM. Reason: Vanity ;-)
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  14. #1694
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    Apart from an entertaining read,you guys are just taking the "swap the shoebox" thing much too far.

    Endless journeys around the chocolate box and never knowingly any nearer the mastertape or the truth. Like a Womans Mag really

    The copy is good though. SSM and Jerry ............ Is it QVC or Hi fi Panorama ?
    Men who never get carried away should be

  15. #1695
    Super Wammer JANDL100's Avatar
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    Hey - unless you try these things, how do you know?

    It's not just the destination - enjoying the journey is important, too!

    To each his own, eh!
    Life's too short for boring hifi!

  16. #1696
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    Of course Jerry......tongue in cheek mate
    Men who never get carried away should be

  17. #1697
    aka Tannoyboy HoopsOnToast's Avatar
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    Solid, what speakers did you listen to the Brio-R with? Recon it might do ok with the ATC's? (Arbiet at low levels/near-field)
    You Know Rega are doing a half-width Apollo

  18. #1698
    Founding Wammer SSM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoopsOnToast View Post
    Solid, what speakers did you listen to the Brio-R with? Recon it might do ok with the ATC's? (Arbiet at low levels/near-field)
    You Know Rega are doing a half-width Apollo
    RS1 and SCM7. The ATC of course needed more gain on the volume knob but the Brio-R could elicit the same sound levels from the SCM7 as it did the RS1. So I reckon your SCM10 is Brio-R-friendly as long as you aren't seeking to blow the rafters off. IMO the SCM7 is a technically more accomplished design than the RS1, but I did notice a sympathetic synergy between the RS1 and Brio-R.

    Half-width Apollo in the pipeline? This is news to me. I'll be keeping tabs on the situation now. Ta.

    cheerSS
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  19. #1699
    Founding Wammer SSM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JANDL100 View Post
    Hey - unless you try these things, how do you know?

    It's not just the destination - enjoying the journey is important, too!

    To each his own, eh!
    Jerry, don't give too much cred to that scotch builder. Stirring is what he is good at (you should read the crap he spouts on the tennis thread.)

    I may have done a bit of box-buying this year but these aren't pointless side-swaps. With the Rega combo and the ELACs I dare say I have brought the replay quality of my classical-jazz music rig to 'entry-level hi-end' () while still keeping the system as compact and metrosexual as possible. The fine resolution, musicality and capacious soundstaging it is capable of can never be mistaken for a budget system sound. Even non-fi friends who visited recently have noticed/commented that I have done 'something' to my system.

    We may be very different persons, Nature Boy, but the one thing we have in common is our constant penchant for savouring delectable products from different manufacturers.


    SS
    Last edited by SSM; 30-09-2011 at 04:29 PM. Reason: Vanity ;-)
    CONRAD-JOHNSON HD3, ET3SE & CLASSIC SIXTY SE, ICON AUDIO LA4 MKIII > NAIM NAP 100
    PRIMARE DAC30 > AYRE K-5xeMP > GENESIS M60, audiolab M-DAC > GENESIS I60
    REGA RP1, DAC & ELICIT, ARCAM rDAC & FMJ A38, MF X-T100 & X-A2, SONY TA-F246E

    TANNOY PRECISION 6.2, ELAC BS244, ATC SCM11, S3/5R, DM 2/6, XERO, Q 2020i

  20. #1700
    Super Wammer
    Join Date
     Sep 2008
    Posts
     1,804
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     Glasgow, ,
    I may have done a bit of box-buying this year but these aren't pointless side-swaps.
    You are so sexy when squirming Solid
    Men who never get carried away should be

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