Teach Yourself Web Development

[rcook]

My company is in desperate need of a new website. I've a had few problems with developers (not doing what I asked them to do) and looked at the CMS-type things (Wordpress, Joomla, Drupal, Concrete5 etc) and found them all to be unspeakably awful and completely unusable, so they are absolutely not an option under any circumstances (please don't anyone recommend I use any of them).

Therefore, the best option is to either get a new developer who will do what I ask them to do, or do it myself. Getting a developer will cost money that I don't have, so I am considering the DIY route. This basically means I will need to teach myself Dreamweaver and buy myself a copy. But as Dreamweaver costs a few hundred quid for the full version, add a further few hundred for the cost of a training course and you are getting towards the cost of paying a developer.

I've seen there are books available like 'Dreamweaver for Dummies' and 'Teach Yourself Visually Dreamweaver', has anyone used these or any others ? Are they any good ?

[TheMinimalCriminal]

As a first port of call, I wouldn't recommend buying Dreamweaver at all. It's expensive, not terribly good and Adobe are to put it mildly, rubbish.

As far as what to use, that largely depends on a couple of things:

What platform you are on (Windows or Mac etc.)
Whether you need a WYSIWYG editor at all.
What features you want the website to have.

In theory all you need to build a website is Notepad or an alternative text editor. However, having autofill text functionality for example can help speed things up and also reduce typing errors etc.

[notaclue]

Why not try something like http://new.squarespace.com/

[Caliente]

Another potential route is Adobe Muse - apparently popular in the States but not here.

SharePoint is also popular as a content management system (it allows you to load Dreamweaver files, and just about any other)

[SMEagol]

muse does look good, from what I've seen.

[rabski]

Why not call me?

I'm busy, but that's because I'm good at what I do...

- - - Updated - - -

And if you're going to do it yourself, use a template.

Do NOT use Dreamweaver. You will get thoroughly fucked.

[scott]

try www.daily.co.uk i bought one of there websites in a box for £100 then did it myself

[barnacle bill]

.... the best option is to either get a new developer who will do what I ask them to do, or do it myself.

What is it you want done?

[bohemian]

I use a simple tool like Topstyle HTML and CSS editor, but have a look at http://www.coffeecup.com/ - they have a free html editor, and a simple WYSIWYG website builder. Something there may be just what you need. They have addons for creating shopping carts, forms etc. too.

[grimep]

I've been working with Macromedia and Adobe suite tools since the mid 90s, there's always been a Dreamweaver license (or creative suite licenses) around and I've never once seen anyone use it for real work. These days pro web developers spend most of their time churning out Javascript in an editor or IDE.

[rcook]

Thanks for all the replies. I will reply to the PMs individually. Bohemian - I will take a look at the things you mention.

I want something which is easy to use, and have given it long thought - usually the 'off the shelf' templates are too inflexible to allow me to make it look like I want it to look (call me radical, but I want to be able to move logos, text, headings etc around easily).

Just to make it clear, I am an IT type of over 25 years experience. You name it, I have probably done it with a PC in that time, with the exception of websites which seem to be a complete minefield. So I also would like to get to know how to do my own from scratch.

Also, no-one has answered the question I asked - which was: Are the 'teach yourself' books any good ?

[TheMinimalCriminal]

They vary, as with most things. I started off just working through the stuff on the www.w3schools.com website and then googled when I had issues.

[rcook]

I've had a look - Coffeecup Visual Site Designer looks friendly (how it should be), I've downloaded the trial and will have play and see how I get on. I like the fact that it is pretty inexpensive, and you can add webshops later on (something I will be wanting to do long term)

Adobe Muse looks good from what I see, not convinced by having to subscribe to it... errrr WTF ?

[notevenclose]

My company is in desperate need of a new website. I've a had few problems with developers (not doing what I asked them to do) and looked at the CMS-type things (Wordpress, Joomla, Drupal, Concrete5 etc) and found them all to be unspeakably awful and completely unusable, so they are absolutely not an option under any circumstances (please don't anyone recommend I use any of them).

Therefore, the best option is to either get a new developer who will do what I ask them to do, or do it myself. Getting a developer will cost money that I don't have, so I am considering the DIY route. This basically means I will need to teach myself Dreamweaver and buy myself a copy. But as Dreamweaver costs a few hundred quid for the full version, add a further few hundred for the cost of a training course and you are getting towards the cost of paying a developer.

I've seen there are books available like 'Dreamweaver for Dummies' and 'Teach Yourself Visually Dreamweaver', has anyone used these or any others ? Are they any good ?

Ah, web developers. They're all bastards. I know I certainly am.

Seems to me you need to be clear on what exactly you're trying to achieve and what the site has to do in terms of functionality. As I frequently say to my clients, any fuckwit can build a website these days, the trick is in building the right one for your clients/potential clients.

If you think that building a successful website is an IT project, well, not surprisingly I'd beg to differ, but again it largely comes back to what you're trying to say and to whom.

The other thing to bear in mind is you probably have no reference point for degree of difficulty to implement certain functionality - in some cases clients ask for a quote for something which is no more than 15 minutes of programming, other times they ask for something 'simple' with no concept of the underlying complexity of their request. Usually it's possible to steer them toward an easier/cheaper alternative.

I'd agree with the advice to give the likes of Dreamweaver a wide berth - bloated, buggy, over-priced crap (IMO).


I'd suggest perhaps a Wordpress template - there are loads out there - find something close to what you need then you can customise. You'll need an HTML editor and something to work with CSS, which will control the layout and placement of elements of your site.

Alternatively if you don't want to learn HTML and CSS from scratch (which may require more than one damp weekend) then products like Rapidweaver (Mac only) or the CoffeeCup stuff will give you an easier intro.

[rcook]

They vary, as with most things. I started off just working through the stuff on the www.w3schools.com website and then googled when I had issues.

Thanks Jon, I will take a look at that

[rcook]

Ah, web developers. They're all bastards. I know I certainly am.

Seems to me you need to be clear on what exactly you're trying to achieve and what the site has to do in terms of functionality. As I frequently say to my clients, any fuckwit can build a website these days, the trick is in building the right one for your clients/potential clients.

If you think that building a successful website is an IT project, well, not surprisingly I'd beg to differ, but again it largely comes back to what you're trying to say and to whom.

The other thing to bear in mind is you probably have no reference point for degree of difficulty to implement certain functionality - in some cases clients ask for a quote for something which is no more than 15 minutes of programming, other times they ask for something 'simple' with no concept of the underlying complexity of their request. Usually it's possible to steer them toward an easier/cheaper alternative.

I'd agree with the advice to give the likes of Dreamweaver a wide berth - bloated, buggy, over-priced crap (IMO).


I'd suggest perhaps a Wordpress template - there are loads out there - find something close to what you need then you can customise. You'll need an HTML editor and something to work with CSS, which will control the layout and placement of elements of your site.

Alternatively if you don't want to learn HTML and CSS from scratch (which may require more than one damp weekend) then products like Rapidweaver (Mac only) or the CoffeeCup stuff will give you an easier intro.

Thanks Miles, no the web developer in question was told not to do certain things - like put my company logo in a certain place, or to use Wordpress under any circumstances. Both of which they did, and found themselves no longer doing work for me, fortunately this was at an early stage.

I won't use Wordpress UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. I know some people will disagree and love it, but rarely have I ever come across such a godawful piece of software, truly, jaw-dropping, brain-meltingly ghastly (bear in mind I've been in IT since the days of DOS 1.25). I wasted three days trying to get somewhere with it, I was ready to throw my PC through the window by the end... and this was meant to be an easy to use one. Joomla, Drupal and all the others were at least as bad. So there is no way I will go back to using it, ever. In this day and age, it should be easy, intuitive and straightforward - which Coffeecup SEEMS to be.

[notevenclose]

Again, it's a case of being clear what you're trying to achieve, acquiring the right tools to do it and the understanding to make them do what you want. Most of the open source CMS options are really intended to be used without a working knowledge of html by the person(s) editing the content, which for most clients would be considered a good thing. They're not really intended as tools to build a website, but to manage it. So you're not really comparing like with like.

To actually create 'master' pages and functionality you'd normally be working with tools to create/manipulate code which you'd then use as the basis of CMS templates.

Since HTML is HTML, if you avoid anything which generates proprietary code, e.g.. Dreamweaver, you can edit your code in anything you like. It simply becomes a case of finding the editing environment which suits you at any given time.

But again, it all comes down to what you're trying to achieve.

In truth,I'd not get too hung up on the technology. It's not mandatory to have a detailed working knowledge of how a printing press works in order to produce a great ad, nor will immersing yourself in video post-production software let you turn out a great commercial.

To me what you're describing isn't an IT problem, it's a marketing/communication issue, and DW for Dummies won't help you with that.

[hifiwigwam]

W3schools.. but being an it person you would know that..

WordPress is marvelous by the way, but as you've already decided...

[hifiwigwam]

Yes, a avoid dreamweaver, hideous pile of bloated shite, which generates bloated code too.

[snip]

I made a website once, I used a program called vim, which is what I use to write all code and stuff with, I likes it, a lot.. Most people don't.
Also I would not recommend using it for big and complicated websites perhaps.
It sure does make me happy though.

//Jan