Epiphany Acoustics Evolution Audio  Audio Emotion 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 29
  1. #1
    Wammer
    Join Date
     Sep 2007
    Posts
     2,531
    Location
     Gloucester
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No

    Teach Yourself Web Development

    My company is in desperate need of a new website. I've a had few problems with developers (not doing what I asked them to do) and looked at the CMS-type things (Wordpress, Joomla, Drupal, Concrete5 etc) and found them all to be unspeakably awful and completely unusable, so they are absolutely not an option under any circumstances (please don't anyone recommend I use any of them).

    Therefore, the best option is to either get a new developer who will do what I ask them to do, or do it myself. Getting a developer will cost money that I don't have, so I am considering the DIY route. This basically means I will need to teach myself Dreamweaver and buy myself a copy. But as Dreamweaver costs a few hundred quid for the full version, add a further few hundred for the cost of a training course and you are getting towards the cost of paying a developer.

    I've seen there are books available like 'Dreamweaver for Dummies' and 'Teach Yourself Visually Dreamweaver', has anyone used these or any others ? Are they any good ?

  2. #2
    Banhammer Time TheMinimalCriminal's Avatar
    Join Date
     Nov 2010
    Posts
     3,373
    Location
     Exeter
    Real Name
     Jon
    Digital Source 1
     PC
    DAC
     MF X-24K
    Integrated Amp
     UnisonResearch Unico
    Speakers
     Triangle Celius
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    As a first port of call, I wouldn't recommend buying Dreamweaver at all. It's expensive, not terribly good and Adobe are to put it mildly, rubbish.

    As far as what to use, that largely depends on a couple of things:

    What platform you are on (Windows or Mac etc.)
    Whether you need a WYSIWYG editor at all.
    What features you want the website to have.

    In theory all you need to build a website is Notepad or an alternative text editor. However, having autofill text functionality for example can help speed things up and also reduce typing errors etc.
    "RECYCLE suitably - including facial-hair onto garden." - Chumpy

  3. #3
    Super Wammer notaclue's Avatar
    Join Date
     Jul 2005
    Posts
     8,083
    Location
     Mayfair
    Real Name
     Duke of Steepletone
    Turn Table
     Steepletone Rock One
    Digital Source 1
     Steepletone Rock One
    Digital Source 2
     Steepletone Rock One
    Speakers
     Steepletone Rock One
    Pre Amp
     Steepletone Rock One
    Power Amp
     Steepletone Rock One
    Headphones
     Steepletone SDCH1110
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Why not try something like http://new.squarespace.com/
    New signature coming soon...



  4. #4
    Che Restiamo Qui Caliente's Avatar
    Join Date
     Jan 2008
    Posts
     837
    Location
     Leeds, , United King
    Real Name
     Robbie
    Turn Table
     Clearaudio Emotion
    Digital Source 1
     Copland CDA 266
    Integrated Amp
     Cairn 4808A
    Speakers
     Opera Grande Mezza
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Another potential route is Adobe Muse - apparently popular in the States but not here.

    SharePoint is also popular as a content management system (it allows you to load Dreamweaver files, and just about any other)
    "That's not music, it's just a loud noise"

    Dad

  5. #5
    Super Wammer SMEagol's Avatar
    Join Date
     Aug 2008
    Posts
     6,352
    Location
     Lancashire
    Real Name
     Chris
    Turn Table
     Oxford Crystal Ref.
    T/Arm & Cart
     Helius/Koetsu
    SUT/Phono
     Trilogy 907
    Digital Source 1
     Wadipod
    Digital Source 2
     Macbook
    DAC
     Audio Synthesis
    Speakers
     Meridian M3's soon
    Pre Amp
     Peter Sanhen SP1.5
    Power Amp
     (in the speakers)
    Headphones
     Philips Fidelio
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    muse does look good, from what I've seen.
    "Before you play two notes learn how to play one note - and don't play one note unless you've got a reason to play it."
    - Mark Hollis (1998)

  6. #6
    Cogito, ergo doleo. rabski's Avatar
    Join Date
     Dec 2006
    Posts
     15,567
    Location
     Eat Mudlands
    Real Name
     Richard
    Turn Table
     Well (Bad) Tempered
    T/Arm & Cart
     WT / Dynavector XX2
    SUT/Phono
     Kairsound SUT
    Digital Source 1
     Marantz transport
    Digital Source 2
     Squeezebox
    DAC
     Audiosector NOS
    Integrated Amp
     In the workshop
    Speakers
     Living Voice
    Pre Amp
     Gordon Welford
    Power Amp
     845 nutter
    Headphones
     Nah
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Why not call me?

    I'm busy, but that's because I'm good at what I do...

    - - - Updated - - -

    And if you're going to do it yourself, use a template.

    Do NOT use Dreamweaver. You will get thoroughly fucked.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but Iím not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant.

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
     Oct 2009
    Posts
     288
    Location
     glasgow
    Real Name
     scott
    Turn Table
     Artemis SA1
    T/Arm & Cart
     Conductor Musicmaker
    Digital Source 1
     Marantz UD9004
    DAC
     dared EF-99
    Speakers
     Usher Be10
    Pre Amp
     Dared T9
    Power Amp
     Dared T300PP
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     Yes
    try www.daily.co.uk i bought one of there websites in a box for £100 then did it myself

  8. #8
    Wammer barnacle bill's Avatar
    Join Date
     Feb 2010
    Posts
     1,867
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Quote Originally Posted by rcook View Post

    .... the best option is to either get a new developer who will do what I ask them to do, or do it myself.
    What is it you want done?
    hollow log

  9. #9
    Wammer
    Join Date
     Oct 2008
    Posts
     2,238
    Location
     Middlesex
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    I use a simple tool like Topstyle HTML and CSS editor, but have a look at http://www.coffeecup.com/ - they have a free html editor, and a simple WYSIWYG website builder. Something there may be just what you need. They have addons for creating shopping carts, forms etc. too.
    Suzy Creamcheese - what's got into ya?

  10. #10
    Wammer grimep's Avatar
    Join Date
     Dec 2009
    Posts
     1,136
    Location
     Surrey, United Kingd
    Real Name
     Graham
    Digital Source 1
     Quad CDP-2
    Integrated Amp
     Quad 909 & 99s
    Speakers
     PMC db1
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    I've been working with Macromedia and Adobe suite tools since the mid 90s, there's always been a Dreamweaver license (or creative suite licenses) around and I've never once seen anyone use it for real work. These days pro web developers spend most of their time churning out Javascript in an editor or IDE.

  11. #11
    Wammer
    Join Date
     Sep 2007
    Posts
     2,531
    Location
     Gloucester
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Thanks for all the replies. I will reply to the PMs individually. Bohemian - I will take a look at the things you mention.

    I want something which is easy to use, and have given it long thought - usually the 'off the shelf' templates are too inflexible to allow me to make it look like I want it to look (call me radical, but I want to be able to move logos, text, headings etc around easily).

    Just to make it clear, I am an IT type of over 25 years experience. You name it, I have probably done it with a PC in that time, with the exception of websites which seem to be a complete minefield. So I also would like to get to know how to do my own from scratch.

    Also, no-one has answered the question I asked - which was: Are the 'teach yourself' books any good ?

  12. #12
    Banhammer Time TheMinimalCriminal's Avatar
    Join Date
     Nov 2010
    Posts
     3,373
    Location
     Exeter
    Real Name
     Jon
    Digital Source 1
     PC
    DAC
     MF X-24K
    Integrated Amp
     UnisonResearch Unico
    Speakers
     Triangle Celius
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    They vary, as with most things. I started off just working through the stuff on the www.w3schools.com website and then googled when I had issues.
    "RECYCLE suitably - including facial-hair onto garden." - Chumpy

  13. #13
    Wammer
    Join Date
     Sep 2007
    Posts
     2,531
    Location
     Gloucester
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    I've had a look - Coffeecup Visual Site Designer looks friendly (how it should be), I've downloaded the trial and will have play and see how I get on. I like the fact that it is pretty inexpensive, and you can add webshops later on (something I will be wanting to do long term)

    Adobe Muse looks good from what I see, not convinced by having to subscribe to it... errrr WTF ?

  14. #14
    Wammer
    Join Date
     Aug 2007
    Posts
     977
    Location
     Perth, Scotland
    Real Name
     Miles
    Digital Source 1
     Apple
    DAC
     Metrum
    Integrated Amp
     Leben
    Speakers
     Living Voice
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Quote Originally Posted by rcook View Post
    My company is in desperate need of a new website. I've a had few problems with developers (not doing what I asked them to do) and looked at the CMS-type things (Wordpress, Joomla, Drupal, Concrete5 etc) and found them all to be unspeakably awful and completely unusable, so they are absolutely not an option under any circumstances (please don't anyone recommend I use any of them).

    Therefore, the best option is to either get a new developer who will do what I ask them to do, or do it myself. Getting a developer will cost money that I don't have, so I am considering the DIY route. This basically means I will need to teach myself Dreamweaver and buy myself a copy. But as Dreamweaver costs a few hundred quid for the full version, add a further few hundred for the cost of a training course and you are getting towards the cost of paying a developer.

    I've seen there are books available like 'Dreamweaver for Dummies' and 'Teach Yourself Visually Dreamweaver', has anyone used these or any others ? Are they any good ?
    Ah, web developers. They're all bastards. I know I certainly am.

    Seems to me you need to be clear on what exactly you're trying to achieve and what the site has to do in terms of functionality. As I frequently say to my clients, any fuckwit can build a website these days, the trick is in building the right one for your clients/potential clients.

    If you think that building a successful website is an IT project, well, not surprisingly I'd beg to differ, but again it largely comes back to what you're trying to say and to whom.

    The other thing to bear in mind is you probably have no reference point for degree of difficulty to implement certain functionality - in some cases clients ask for a quote for something which is no more than 15 minutes of programming, other times they ask for something 'simple' with no concept of the underlying complexity of their request. Usually it's possible to steer them toward an easier/cheaper alternative.

    I'd agree with the advice to give the likes of Dreamweaver a wide berth - bloated, buggy, over-priced crap (IMO).


    I'd suggest perhaps a Wordpress template - there are loads out there - find something close to what you need then you can customise. You'll need an HTML editor and something to work with CSS, which will control the layout and placement of elements of your site.

    Alternatively if you don't want to learn HTML and CSS from scratch (which may require more than one damp weekend) then products like Rapidweaver (Mac only) or the CoffeeCup stuff will give you an easier intro.

  15. #15
    Wammer
    Join Date
     Sep 2007
    Posts
     2,531
    Location
     Gloucester
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMinimalCriminal View Post
    They vary, as with most things. I started off just working through the stuff on the www.w3schools.com website and then googled when I had issues.
    Thanks Jon, I will take a look at that

  16. #16
    Wammer
    Join Date
     Sep 2007
    Posts
     2,531
    Location
     Gloucester
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Quote Originally Posted by notevenclose View Post
    Ah, web developers. They're all bastards. I know I certainly am.

    Seems to me you need to be clear on what exactly you're trying to achieve and what the site has to do in terms of functionality. As I frequently say to my clients, any fuckwit can build a website these days, the trick is in building the right one for your clients/potential clients.

    If you think that building a successful website is an IT project, well, not surprisingly I'd beg to differ, but again it largely comes back to what you're trying to say and to whom.

    The other thing to bear in mind is you probably have no reference point for degree of difficulty to implement certain functionality - in some cases clients ask for a quote for something which is no more than 15 minutes of programming, other times they ask for something 'simple' with no concept of the underlying complexity of their request. Usually it's possible to steer them toward an easier/cheaper alternative.

    I'd agree with the advice to give the likes of Dreamweaver a wide berth - bloated, buggy, over-priced crap (IMO).


    I'd suggest perhaps a Wordpress template - there are loads out there - find something close to what you need then you can customise. You'll need an HTML editor and something to work with CSS, which will control the layout and placement of elements of your site.

    Alternatively if you don't want to learn HTML and CSS from scratch (which may require more than one damp weekend) then products like Rapidweaver (Mac only) or the CoffeeCup stuff will give you an easier intro.
    Thanks Miles, no the web developer in question was told not to do certain things - like put my company logo in a certain place, or to use Wordpress under any circumstances. Both of which they did, and found themselves no longer doing work for me, fortunately this was at an early stage.

    I won't use Wordpress UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. I know some people will disagree and love it, but rarely have I ever come across such a godawful piece of software, truly, jaw-dropping, brain-meltingly ghastly (bear in mind I've been in IT since the days of DOS 1.25). I wasted three days trying to get somewhere with it, I was ready to throw my PC through the window by the end... and this was meant to be an easy to use one. Joomla, Drupal and all the others were at least as bad. So there is no way I will go back to using it, ever. In this day and age, it should be easy, intuitive and straightforward - which Coffeecup SEEMS to be.

  17. #17
    Wammer
    Join Date
     Aug 2007
    Posts
     977
    Location
     Perth, Scotland
    Real Name
     Miles
    Digital Source 1
     Apple
    DAC
     Metrum
    Integrated Amp
     Leben
    Speakers
     Living Voice
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Again, it's a case of being clear what you're trying to achieve, acquiring the right tools to do it and the understanding to make them do what you want. Most of the open source CMS options are really intended to be used without a working knowledge of html by the person(s) editing the content, which for most clients would be considered a good thing. They're not really intended as tools to build a website, but to manage it. So you're not really comparing like with like.

    To actually create 'master' pages and functionality you'd normally be working with tools to create/manipulate code which you'd then use as the basis of CMS templates.

    Since HTML is HTML, if you avoid anything which generates proprietary code, e.g.. Dreamweaver, you can edit your code in anything you like. It simply becomes a case of finding the editing environment which suits you at any given time.

    But again, it all comes down to what you're trying to achieve.

    In truth,I'd not get too hung up on the technology. It's not mandatory to have a detailed working knowledge of how a printing press works in order to produce a great ad, nor will immersing yourself in video post-production software let you turn out a great commercial.

    To me what you're describing isn't an IT problem, it's a marketing/communication issue, and DW for Dummies won't help you with that.

  18. #18
    Admin hifiwigwam's Avatar
    Join Date
     Jul 2005
    Posts
     27,527
    Location
     Sussex, West Side.
    Real Name
     James
    Turn Table
     Acoustic Solid 111
    T/Arm & Cart
     Audio Note / Benz
    SUT/Phono
     Puresound T10/P10
    Digital Source 1
     Leema - Antilla
    Digital Source 2
     SONOS connect
    DAC
     Leema Elements
    Speakers
     Mulidine Allegretto
    Pre Amp
     Modwright SWL 9.0SE
    Power Amp
     Advantage S100
    Headphones
     Bowers & Wilkins P7
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    W3schools.. but being an it person you would know that..

    WordPress is marvelous by the way, but as you've already decided...

  19. #19
    Admin hifiwigwam's Avatar
    Join Date
     Jul 2005
    Posts
     27,527
    Location
     Sussex, West Side.
    Real Name
     James
    Turn Table
     Acoustic Solid 111
    T/Arm & Cart
     Audio Note / Benz
    SUT/Phono
     Puresound T10/P10
    Digital Source 1
     Leema - Antilla
    Digital Source 2
     SONOS connect
    DAC
     Leema Elements
    Speakers
     Mulidine Allegretto
    Pre Amp
     Modwright SWL 9.0SE
    Power Amp
     Advantage S100
    Headphones
     Bowers & Wilkins P7
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    Yes, a avoid dreamweaver, hideous pile of bloated shite, which generates bloated code too.

  20. #20
    Wammer snip's Avatar
    Join Date
     Mar 2010
    Posts
     404
    Location
     South Wales
    Real Name
     Jan
    Turn Table
     Japanese
    T/Arm & Cart
     British/Danish
    SUT/Phono
     Chinese/American
    Digital Source 1
     SBT
    Digital Source 2
     MBP
    DAC
     Thai
    Integrated Amp
     Very British
    Speakers
     German
    Pre Amp
     Just a box of wires
    Power Amp
     Sitting on top
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No
    I made a website once, I used a program called vim, which is what I use to write all code and stuff with, I likes it, a lot.. Most people don't.
    Also I would not recommend using it for big and complicated websites perhaps.
    It sure does make me happy though.

    //Jan

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •