Ortofon 2m Black cleaning advice needed

[dogboxSW16]

This has probably come up before but I'm getting pretty desperate. Traded in my old hi-fi a while ago when I was in the money but now times aren't so great and I would hate to damage any of my gear without the cash to replace it.

My hi-fi is in a small room with books that line 2 walls, vinyl another. The air that gets pumped around from the stereo and TV equipment on the fourth wall means that dust is abundant; which is a problem regardless of the fact that the 2M range is extremely sensitive anyway - a piece of knowledge gained a few months after the purchase. I also smoke a lot.

My issue of course is regarding the use of cleaning products on my vinyl or cartridge. That Knosti stuff, so I've heard, leaves a residue that in any normal cartridge can build up and clog motors and even dissolve some glues. Considering the delicate nature of the 2M black stylus the residue will attack the audio quality sooner than on most other styluses. Some similar liquids have been known to clog up the grooves on records as well.

I'm about to give up on vinyl if the problem isn't fixed soon. Even after cleaning some vinyl with a carbon-fibre brush the cartridge is clogged and the audio is crummy before the first tune has finished playing. I've heard a small soft paintbrush can do the trick with stylus maintenance but I haven't even attempted it. It's a damned expensive mistake if I make it!

Any advice at all on cleaning vinyl and/or styluses, especially from those who own the 2M black, would be much appreciated.

Niiiiice one,

Bill

Oh yeah, and if anybody is wondering (if it is important), these are my stats:

ATCSIA2150, ATC SCM19s, REGA P5/ORTOFON 2M BLACK/GRAHAM SLEE REFLEX

[myrman]

What makes the Ortofon stylus more sensitive than any other ? I've had the 2M Blue and a Black and never had any issues. Get a proper RCM and some VP Dustbuster to clean the stylus from http://www.the-missing-link.net/
There are loads of threads on vinyl cleaning on here. Do a search.


and stop smoking.

[meninblack]

I use the Knosti fluid to clean vinyl and haven't noticed any problems - it seems unlikely (speaking as a chemist ) that there would be any significant residues given the composition.

That said, I wouldn't use a solvent-based product to clean a stylus. I get by with the Ortofon brush that came with the 2m Black. Used it on the Red, Black and now the Io without any trouble. Brush from the back of the stylus towards the front.

[johnniebaby]

It's not the Knosti cleaning fluid that causes the gunge, it the crap in the grooves that isn't removed by the (piss poor) Knosti cleaning system, mixed with the cleaning fluid that's the problem. A vacuum cleaning system is needed to do a proper job.

[Tarzan]

Do not use the Knosti! You have a few issues here firstly the 2M Black is super critical of set up, The Rega P5 is prolly not good enough for the 2M Black and the amp and speakers you have are ruthless of any source you may have, and also try a decent vacum record cleaning machine, all in my humble of course.

[vacdac]

I'm a smoker too, but don't currently have any issues with crud build up on the stylus.....although I have in the past when I used a HMV branded pump spray cleaning formulation which left a residue, & removal of said crud can be a little problematic. There are a few issues here if you don't own one of the sonic jobs, then some sort of solvent based cleaner will likely be necessary. I personally have used the AT607 stuff & it's very effective but there are some caveats to minimize the risk of damage to your stylus/cart. Many cantilevers are of a hollow pipe construction & if you are too excessive with the amount of fluid used this can make its way into the carts internals by capillary action & pretty much bugger it up completely....I'm not sure whether this is as much of a problem for m.m. carts as it should be possible to remove the stylus in most cases & replace it a good while later allowing any residue to evaporate. Ideally you need to work very quickly too my oc9 was pretty gunked up several years back & my preference for m.c.'s/fixed cantilever carts is to remove them from the arm & also have a couple of proper soft stylus brushes ready to hand. You then need to very quickly apply the AT stuff with any excess fluid wiped off the applicator....I've found it's really effective & you're not trying to give the stylus a bath ....further to this there is a risk that prolonged exposure could lead to the potentially v expensive business end of your stylus de-bonding from the cantilever. Next with the TWO ready to hand stylus brushes I quickly give the whole cantilever a gentle wipe from the top of the cantilever to it's business end...job done.

I've been a Moth pro vacuum RCM user for 4/5 years now & completely agree with all the comments re residual crud being a complete none issue using one of these....For the keen vinyl lover this is prolly one of the best investments you could ever make IMV I've slightly modded mine so that it offers improved suction....particularly on lp's that are slightly warped here's the thread...please forgive as the thread itself is a bit of a "Barsteward" & somewhat messy as Mark(browellm) helpfully amalgamated the pertinent bits from two separate threads for me & subsequently relocated it into the Diy section http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread...eaning+machine.

As said I don't currently have any issues re gunk build up on my stylus but I have had to rescue those of a couple of mates....one of who had followed some idiotic advice from the web & dabbled wiv "Wet Replay" following cleaning.....as the "Stylus would effectively dig into the groove & remove any crud" Feckin blinding advice....the originator should b murdered...HORRIBLY!!! Luckily his cart wasn't totalled....but luck was all it it was tbh

[dogboxSW16]

What makes the Ortofon stylus more sensitive than any other ? I've had the 2M Blue and a Black and never had any issues. Get a proper RCM and some VP Dustbuster to clean the stylus from http://www.the-missing-link.net/
There are loads of threads on vinyl cleaning on here. Do a search.


and stop smoking.

I've no idea what makes it more sensitive. It's just conjecture. Admittedly - mass opinion from whathifi.

The Dustbuster seems pretty reasonable. Some RCMs have always put me off. The cheapest Moth products are no less than 200 quid.

I like smoking.

Cheers for the advice

- - - Updated - - -

It's not the Knosti cleaning fluid that causes the gunge, it the crap in the grooves that isn't removed by the (piss poor) Knosti cleaning system, mixed with the cleaning fluid that's the problem. A vacuum cleaning system is needed to do a proper job.

Well that makes perfect sense.

[smegger68]

I have a KAB EV-1 which is basically a Nitty Gritty without a motor:

http://www.kabusa.com/ev1.htm

It's $169 - about £100 and does as good a job as the pricier machines. Love mine!

[meninblack]

Not sure about the sensitivity TBH. Dust makes the Io sound awful far more quickly than the old 2m Black. I brush it after every side.

[dogboxSW16]

I'm a smoker too, but don't currently have any issues with crud build up on the stylus.....although I have in the past when I used a HMV branded pump spray cleaning formulation which left a residue, & removal of said crud can be a little problematic. There are a few issues here if you don't own one of the sonic jobs, then some sort of solvent based cleaner will likely be necessary. I personally have used the AT607 stuff & it's very effective but there are some caveats to minimize the risk of damage to your stylus/cart. Many cantilevers are of a hollow pipe construction & if you are too excessive with the amount of fluid used this can make its way into the carts internals by capillary action & pretty much bugger it up completely....I'm not sure whether this is as much of a problem for m.m. carts as it should be possible to remove the stylus in most cases & replace it a good while later allowing any residue to evaporate. Ideally you need to work very quickly too my oc9 was pretty gunked up several years back & my preference for m.c.'s/fixed cantilever carts is to remove them from the arm & also have a couple of proper soft stylus brushes ready to hand. You then need to very quickly apply the AT stuff with any excess fluid wiped off the applicator....I've found it's really effective & you're not trying to give the stylus a bath ....further to this there is a risk that prolonged exposure could lead to the potentially v expensive business end of your stylus de-bonding from the cantilever. Next with the TWO ready to hand stylus brushes I quickly give the whole cantilever a gentle wipe from the top of the cantilever to it's business end...job done.

I've been a Moth pro vacuum RCM user for 4/5 years now & completely agree with all the comments re residual crud being a complete none issue using one of these....For the keen vinyl lover this is prolly one of the best investments you could ever make IMV I've slightly modded mine so that it offers improved suction....particularly on lp's that are slightly warped here's the thread...please forgive as the thread itself is a bit of a "Barsteward" & somewhat messy as Mark(browellm) helpfully amalgamated the pertinent bits from two separate threads for me & subsequently relocated it into the Diy section http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread...eaning+machine.

As said I don't currently have any issues re gunk build up on my stylus but I have had to rescue those of a couple of mates....one of who had followed some idiotic advice from the web & dabbled wiv "Wet Replay" following cleaning.....as the "Stylus would effectively dig into the groove & remove any crud" Feckin blinding advice....the originator should b murdered...HORRIBLY!!! Luckily his cart wasn't totalled....but luck was all it it was tbh

Hahahaha yeah I've seen record cleaning products advertised on Amazon no less for a clean result that 'no longer requires wet play'. It's true though. It's been said elsewhere. It is more likely the knosti hardware itself cheaping out and not doing its job... like washing your face with a wire brush and blaming Dove for the blood.

I'll check out the thread but, as I said, having been out of work for 3 weeks now with no job on the horizon until now (which I start in a few weeks), the Moth products seem economically daunting. Would be a decent investment considering the age of some of my vinyl. Cheeeeers!

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure about the sensitivity TBH. Dust makes the Io sound awful far more quickly than the old 2m Black. I brush it after every side.

After every side?? That makes me feel much better about my OCD. If that's what it takes then I'll get on it. You clean your vinyl just as often?

[dogboxSW16]

Do not use the Knosti! You have a few issues here firstly the 2M Black is super critical of set up, The Rega P5 is prolly not good enough for the 2M Black and the amp and speakers you have are ruthless of any source you may have, and also try a decent vacum record cleaning machine, all in my humble of course.

Now. I expected this answer. You....

This is my first decent system and I was aware when I put it together of the pitfalls of the ATC set up. There's a negative and a positive side to such clarity... so let's leave it at that.

What I would like to know is how the P5 and the black cartridge are incompatible. So far I've had no problem with them and having tried the bog-standard Elys2 and other colours from the 2M range I was positive that black had the best results for me. Besides this having nothing to do with dust build-up, what exactly is lacking in the P5?

[Gforce]

I own a Knosti and tbh it did a fairly good job of scrubbing the crud out of the vinyl I put through it, however I have a fairly large collection of vinyl and I am in no uncertain terms buying an Okki Nokki vacuum RCM next week and I believe it will be worth every penny of it's cost, especially when you take into the consideration that just one new slab of vinyl costs around £20 - £25 these days, and the cost of the cartridges I use is excessive, using a hand RCM that costs not much more than one record and doesn't really do the job properly is a waste of time for me, if you intend to continue with the Knosti, you need a 2nd bath for rinsing off afterwards.

If you have a large collection of vinyl and intend to keep adding to it, investing in a £400 vacuum RCM is a short term financial hit compared to the cost of good vinyl and cartridges, and you don't need to worry about heavy cleaning your diamond every record you play.

[barneys dad]

What makes the Ortofon stylus more sensitive than any other ? I've had the 2M Blue and a Black and never had any issues. Get a proper RCM and some VP Dustbuster to clean the stylus from http://www.the-missing-link.net/
There are loads of threads on vinyl cleaning on here. Do a search.


and stop smoking.

except the smoking bit.

[vacdac]

+1

FWIW.....whilst there's little doubt the Black is a great cart....I really don't see why it shouldn't sound very good wiv your arm/deck combo ....it goes without saying that it would undoubtedly show more of it's mettle with even better ancillaries....however it's not like you're using a mid priced m.c. cart mounted on a budget deck & paired wiv a C.A. phono stage & expecting it to sound the"Dogs Danglies" is it.

Know what you mean about the "Perceived cost & vfm of a decent vacuum RCM.....I'm sure many of us who've bought one ummed & arghed with much mulling before actually taking the plunge...seriously tho' it's just completely worth it if you're collection is of any size or likely to continue growing...as said IMV one of the best investments you can make if you're serious about your vinyl .

Smeggers suggestion re the Kab EV1 is a proper goodun as its v affordable at the expense of a little automation, & Johniebaby has done a self build of something similar so maybe p.m. him for a link to his thread or some advice...but I daresay he'll likely reappear in this thread at some point.

vacdac ooooot

Now. I expected this answer. You....

This is my first decent system and I was aware when I put it together of the pitfalls of the ATC set up. There's a negative and a positive side to such clarity... so let's leave it at that.

What I would like to know is how the P5 and the black cartridge are incompatible. So far I've had no problem with them and having tried the bog-standard Elys2 and other colours from the 2M range I was positive that black had the best results for me. Besides this having nothing to do with dust build-up, what exactly is lacking in the P5?

[meninblack]

You clean your vinyl just as often?

LOL, no! Every few years, more like.

[vacdac]

Lol, I'd totally agree that prolly every few years is all that's necessary in terms of properly cleaning vinyl on the RCM....as long as it's handled/stored correctly that is. It's not going to become magically grubby unless some oik smears it wiv their grubby pawprints or mouthbreathes their mucus onto it In my house anyone gets one chance to show they know what they're doing or that they can follow instructions/tutelage....& if they fail they're just told to fuck off away from my vinyl

I prolly do use one of my carbon record brush's for several revs before each start of side & the stylus too gets a gentle wipe with a soft stylus brush as I always have several close to hand + an ortofon carbon bristle pad type one for occasional use although in general I prefer the soft ones OCD? deffo, but it only takes seconds & fluff build up is simply never an issue.

LOL, no! Every few years, more like.

[Tel]

Some RCMs have always put me off. The cheapest Moth products are no less than 200 quid.

I like smoking.

At over £6.00 a packet, and a packet a day, an RCM can be yours in a month!

Your choice

[vacdac]

Lol Kevin I toootarly agree wiv this...personally I only spend around £45 a month on smoking ephemera...the legal kind that is as I'm much more of a lightweight compared to not so long back. For the most part tho', I reckon your figures may not b far off. In a similar vein their was a Fella recently asking questions re RCM's & baulking at the cost & settling for a Knosti ....I've watched with some puzzlement as he's been buying continually various bits n' bobs that by my count so far have added up to buying a decent vacuum RCM several times over, at least prolly .... I'm not saying his upgrades haven't been worthwhile...just that IMV he could have easily afforded an RCM & prolly the other stuff too & likely in a not too far different timescale....Nowt funnier than Folk!! & I guess we all have different takes...my priorities would have been different

At over £6.00 a packet, and a packet a day, an RCM can be yours in a month!

Your choice

[Chumpy]

Fine advice above - all of the best in discovering what suits you/your carts-styli/your vinyl.