Tube selection??? Upgrading the Berning....also spot the Foo

[enjoy_the_music]

Hello,

Can you recommend a supplier of tubes for my Berning amp?

I would like to upgrade from the stock tubes to something...well, worth upgrading to.

Tube compliment is:

4 x 6JN6 tubes
4 x 12AT7 / ECC81
2 x 12AV7

I was considering Brimar, RCA or GE 12AT7 or Mullard....and maybe Mullard 12AV7's.

I checked tubedepot and they are offering cryo'd 'Black Sable' tubes..check it out. I think cryo is foo..but has anyone tried them?

http://www.tubedepot.com/bsct.html

They certainly cost a pretty penny!!!!!

[enbee23]

I've thought carefully about this and here is my advice for upgrading your Berning:

Swap it for my pile of vintage Accuphase you admired in another thread. Maybe wouldn't be much of an improvement for you but it sure as hell would work for me.

[enjoy_the_music]

You're such a dealmeister Nick.

[enbee23]

enjoy_the_music wrote:

You're such a dealmeister Nick.

I wish...

[Tel]

I would need 4 of these for my pre

http://www.tubedepot.com/bsct-6922-mullard.html

I bought 4 of those mullards NOS, not gold pin version for about £75.00 recently and they sound great!

But the thought of investing $800 dollars is nuts!

I would put that toward some new speakers!

[bodymusic]

Have you considered going the Telefunken route with the 12AT7 and 12AV7- ECC801S and 5965 respectively? They are very clear sounding.

Although pricey, they can be cheaper from an ebay auction than a dealer IME and will last a long time in the ZH.

Not sure if the output tube quality (6JN6) is as crucial as the 12AT7s/12AV7s. That said, I wonder if my stock cryo'd Sylvanias could be bettered?

[enjoy_the_music]

I'll have a look. Best probably is to buy in a few types for trial.

Today i spotted some nice ECC801S tubes by telefunken.

A guy in the USA has quoted around $300 for the 6 tubes. RCA's and Brimar.

[bodymusic]

Wise move. There's definitely no harm in experimenting.

BTW, have you listened to the ZH with both the stepped attenuator and the pot? How would you compare the two and which would you recommend?

[enjoy_the_music]

Yo.

Well personnally I prefer the pot. The pot is very well manufactured and provides more volume flexibility.

As for overall sound quality maybe there might be the tiniest bit less noise on truly sensitive speakers...but on mine, even at 96db sensitivity I heard nothing.

[bodymusic]

I thought I heard somewhere that the pot sounded better. But you think it just provides better volume flexiblity and not much else.

Have you tried omitting the preamp? I have with the CD player, which is great, but not tried the record deck yet- but I don't see how there's going to be enough volume from the phono stage anyway.

[enjoy_the_music]

Hi,

I do prefer the pot. To be honest I havent got two Berning's here to test side by side. A friend says that the pot makes the Berning sound more 'soulful'...take from that what you will...to me that means slightly more noise.

Anyway I bought the first load of tubes. Very nice ones too from a guy nearby in germany. Apparently these are rated with the very top 12AT7's and ECC801S's..transparent and punchy. We'll see.

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=190122375077

Bought 5 even though i need 4 only...always good to have a spare.

Now on to the 12AV7's.

[bodymusic]

30 Euros each. Less than the ECC801s- I paid about £45 per tube

[enjoy_the_music]

Just bought 12AV7's.

http://cgi.ebay.de/5965-12AV7-RCA-4-...QQcmdZViewItem

Good price 41 euros shipped for 4!

I think 12AV7s are probably less sought after?

[Purite Audio]

David Hi, hope you are well, are you going to Heathrow, perhaps I might see you there? How's the Berning compare to your Cary? Very best wishes,keith.

[bodymusic]

enjoy_the_music wrote:

I think 12AV7s are probably less sought after?

I've found that the Telefunken 12AV7s seem to be even more expensive than the ECC801S

Keith, will probably go to Heathrow on the Friday so speak then.

[enjoy_the_music]

The Siemens E80C have added incredible punch and clarity to the sound. Mucho recommendedido. This triple mica version is a really nice tube.

I emailed David about the tubes and he said the following:

''The tubes to the rear are input, left and right; the middle ones are amplifiers, the front ones are drivers.''

At the moment I am pondering whether I have too much gain. My volume settings are mainly between 9pm and 10pm...hence my thinking I may not be getting the best out of things, although the sound is still fwarckin excellent.

The 4 Siemens 12at7's are in the rear input channels and the amplifier channels. The RCA 12AV7's are in the front driver channels.

Got my eye on some brimar 12at7's, which everyone harps on about. Also some GE 5-star 12av7 tubes as drivers.

[mrwippy]

enjoy_the_music wrote:

At the moment I am pondering whether I have too much gain. My volume settings are mainly between 9pm and 10pm...hence my thinking I may not be getting the best out of things, although the sound is still fwarckin excellent.

might be worth checking if a lower 'mu' tube with the same characteristics could be substituted for the 12AT7's to lower the overall gain. Is there room inside for something twice the height of the standard tube? Might be worth exploring the likes of an E180CC/7062 which is a wonderful tube, or indeed replace the AT7's with all AV7's. But as always check with the designer for likely issues. Over the years there have been quite a few instances of things like 5965 (computer rated 12AV7's) re-branded as 12AT7's. I've got a set of 6414's reprinted by the manufacturer as 12AT7's which is again a low gain tube closer to the 12AV7 than 12AT7 it's supposed to be - sounds very nice all the same. Just wondered why when I put them in I had to turn the volume up higher so did some research and found the above story!

[enjoy_the_music]

Hi,

Yes there is room for a taller tube.

I'll try swapping the 12AV7's out for some other types. Better than spending a load of 4 x 12AT7's when I know what i have are fantastic.

Spoke to another user about this and he said he had no problem with too much gain - although he admitted to running the Berning in Normal mode. I prefer Low feedback mode which matches well with my speakers

Thanks for the response!

R