Michell Gyro/orbe armboard mod

[Lawrie]

griffo104 wrote:

Lawrie the spacers now have a rubber o-ring built in to them and these spaces actually bolt directly into the chassis now.

As far as I am aware this will now be standard on the decks but is available as a very nice, cheap mod for exisitng owners.

As Ray mentioned, it's about a quarter the cost of the Pederson mod - who wouldn't even sell me one unless I agreed for him to hack my deck apart.

As mentioned earlier, an existing Pederson user thinks the Michell mod is better.

Griffo & Ray,

Thanks for those clarifications. It's good to know that Michell will now be offering them as standard. Whilst they are at it, it would also be good for them to rethink the suspension/turrets settings as setting up the suspension is not a straightforward as they make out in their instructions. Although I don't have issues with set-up any more, (practice makes perfect etc), I see many decks at friends or acqaintances houses that are poorly set-up and they tend to give up in frustration after several tries. Many Gyro/Orbe owners are not realizing the full potential of their decks due to poor or inadequate set-up and I blame Michell for that. IMO, some sort of calibrated guide/markings and more detailed instructions would be useful.

Btw, Griffo, I am very surprised that Pederson refused to sell you the armboard upgrade as I had no such issues with him. I paid EUR 52.00 including postage and packing and there was no mention of further upgrades of the deck etc. Very strange!

Anyway, digressing slightly,I am really curious to know what the Michell guys have up their sleeves to improve on the Orbe (design/model-wise) now that the inspirational John Michell is no longer around. Does the currentteam have the design know-how to bring out a model that would sit above the Orbe in the pecking order but for sensible money? As Michell is a U.K. company, is there any word on this or will thecurrent models represent the present andfuture for the company?



Enjoy the music™

Lawrie

[griffo104]

Lawrie wrote:

griffo104 wrote:

Lawrie the spacers now have a rubber o-ring built in to them and these spaces actually bolt directly into the chassis now.

As far as I am aware this will now be standard on the decks but is available as a very nice, cheap mod for exisitng owners.

As Ray mentioned, it's about a quarter the cost of the Pederson mod - who wouldn't even sell me one unless I agreed for him to hack my deck apart.

As mentioned earlier, an existing Pederson user thinks the Michell mod is better.

Griffo & Ray,

Thanks for those clarifications. It's good to know that Michell will now be offering them as standard. Whilst they are at it, it would also be good for them to rethink the suspension/turrets settings as setting up the suspension is not a straightforward as they make out in their instructions. Although I don't have issues with set-up any more, (practice makes perfect etc), I see many decks at friends or acqaintances houses that are poorly set-up and they tend to give up in frustration after several tries. Many Gyro/Orbe owners are not realizing the full potential of their decks due to poor or inadequate set-up and I blame Michell for that. IMO, some sort of calibrated guide/markings and more detailed instructions would be useful.

Btw, Griffo, I am very surprised that Pederson refused to sell you the armboard upgrade as I had no such issues with him. I paid EUR 52.00 including postage and packing and there was no mention of further upgrades of the deck etc. Very strange!

Anyway, digressing slightly,I am really curious to know what the Michell guys have up their sleeves to improve on the Orbe (design/model-wise) now that the inspirational John Michell is no longer around. Does the currentteam have the design know-how to bring out a model that would sit above the Orbe in the pecking order but for sensible money? As Michell is a U.K. company, is there any word on this or will thecurrent models represent the present andfuture for the company?



Enjoy the music™

Lawrie

Lawrie,

Pederson refused to actually quote me a price for armboard mod. He was trying very hard to persuade me for the full upgrade, even pointing out a source in the UK who would do it for me - I passed this info on to Papa who did end up using this source.

I don't like a pushy salesman. there are somethings in the Pederson upgrade which I'm not too sure on and since in general I'm happy with my deck I don't wish to mod it in that respect.

This upgrade shows that someone at Michell knows what they are doing but a new deck ? I'm not sure but something tells me we won't be seeing a complete new design from them. The designs were by John and there has been a lack of new stuff coming from Michell themselves since his death.

I disgree slightly with what you are saying about the suspension. I found it fairly easy to setup and install. I get a nice pistoninc bounce. It's child's play after owning an LP12. I'm not too keen on the o-rings used in the Pederson mod and although I trust SME I still wonder why they use o-rings as well as part of their design. Not that I'm in a position to comment, but the pressure put on the o-rings will have an effect over time, more so then the springs on the Michell deck.

I was told by an SME 20 owner that the o-rings need replacing approx every 24 months, I've no idea if this correct or not. I wonder if an SME owner couls comment on that ?????????

I still enjoy listening to my Orbe and really don't feel the need to further upgrade. I would like to have a good listen to a Morch DP6 or SME IV/V on the deck but I get so much from the Technoarm it's going to have to be a very big improvement for me to spend more money on the deck.

To improve on the Orbe design ? In a niche market I think the current price of the Orbe is enough for most people.

[Emma Royd]

Spoke to Steve at Michell the other day,he did't mention anything re new model etc.

He did mention the price of brass etc going through the roof,which has incurred a slight increase in price on the decks

I got the balance about right a few months ago,then had another fiddle,wished I had left well alone,may have another attempt today.

[DB]

Quick questionfor you guys - has this mod made it onto the Michell website yet ? If not what do I ask for when I email them ?

Cheers
Dave

[Emma Royd]

Was'nt on the website the other day,just mention armboard mod.

[Dik Dolan]

DB wrote:

Quick questionfor you guys - has this mod made it onto the Michell website yet ? If not what do I ask for when I email them ?

Cheers
Dave

It's name according to the insruction sheet with mine is "Armplate De-Coupling kit" mine also has "For SME", so I'd definately let 'em know which arm is fitted- spacer lengths might be different etc.

[griffo104]

Dik Dolan wrote:

DB wrote:

Quick questionfor you guys - has this mod made it onto the Michell website yet ? If not what do I ask for when I email them ?

Cheers
Dave

It's name according to the insruction sheet with mine is "Armplate De-Coupling kit" mine also has "For SME", so I'd definately let 'em know which arm is fitted- spacer lengths might be different etc.

They are specific for different arms. I have a Technoarm and the instruction sheet with mine states '... for Rega based arms'.

DB - May be worth just phoning them as they ask what arm you have when you order it.

[DB]

Thanks guys - I'll email them,(phone call from here to UK ain't cheap) mine's a Technoarm so I'll need the Rega based kit

cheers
Dave

[ClassikFan]

still no pics?

[griffo104]

ClassikFan wrote:

still no pics?

Bit hard to photo it, tbh, you can't really see it once it's in place. the spacers look the same as the old spacers in situ and the eyelet thingy is where the arm and locking nut meet so can't really see it without going underneath the deck.

It's £21 including p+p and is a good improvement.

[Lawrie]

griffo104 wrote:

I disgree slightly with what you are saying about the suspension. I found it fairly easy to setup and install. I get a nice pistoninc bounce. It's child's play after owning an LP12. I'm not too keen on the o-rings used in the Pederson mod and although I trust SME I still wonder why they use o-rings as well as part of their design. Not that I'm in a position to comment, but the pressure put on the o-rings will have an effect over time, more so then the springs on the Michell deck.

I was told by an SME 20 owner that the o-rings need replacing approx every 24 months, I've no idea if this correct or not. I wonder if an SME owner couls comment on that ?????????

I still enjoy listening to my Orbe and really don't feel the need to further upgrade. I would like to have a good listen to a Morch DP6 or SME IV/V on the deck but I get so much from the Technoarm it's going to have to be a very big improvement for me to spend more money on the deck.

To improve on the Orbe design ? In a niche market I think the current price of the Orbe is enough for most people.

Ah, Griffo!

Not everyone is you and not everyone has had the benefit of wrestling with an LP12 suspension. Many of the Gyro owners that I know struggle to get that pistonic bounce in the correct manner. I have a terrible habit in that whenever I see a Gyro or Orbe, I give it a press from the centre to see how vertical the bounce is. Seven times out of ten, the bounce is more sideways (jelly-wobble) than vertical and there should be no jelly-wobble. Hence my assertion that many of the Gyros & Orbes out there are not delivering their full potential due to inadequate set-up.

However, I still think that the instructions offered by Michell could be improved upon (I am not alone in thinking so) or they could incorporate as standard the instructions and clear photos provided by that Belgian Michell TT enthusiast, Werner Ogiers.

In terms of the Orbe's price being just right, I bet you that if Michell brought out a new flagship deck that was sonically better than the Orbe and priced above it as well, many Orbe owner's will upgrade. It's just the nature of an audiophile.

P.S. Is there any word on the sonics of Creek's new TT? Was it at the last London hifi show? For what seems like a first TT attempt by Creek, the deck appears to be priced around the Orbe level which is rather ambitious unless the sonics justify that price?



Enjoy the music™

Lawrie

[griffo104]

Lawrie, I suppose after an LP12 suspension then the Michell is a walk in the park.

From my experience most people get the arm cable loop wrong and so the tonearm cable pulls the suspension out. Also the deck seriously needs to be on a flat surface when being setup so the three suspension towers can be setup up correctly and in line with each other. This is all in the instructions supplied from Michell.

Of course one would hope that in purchasing from a good dealer, the deck would be setup for you by an expert - my first Michell deck, a Mycro,certainly was and I felt confident enough to do the Orbe on my own.

The Creek does seem expensive, I remember the MF TT and it was silly expensive for the sound quality on offer, easily bettered by much lower priced decks. The Creek does look a nice TT but it's a very competitive market, although small and niche, and there are a lot of trusted turntable manufacturers outthere. It will be good to see how the Creek deck does.

I still can't see how Michell could create a deck above the Orbe without a total redesign and are they in a position to do this ?

[Purite Audio]

Lawrie Hi, i used to run a 'gorbe', orbe platter motor springs feet everything, the step up to the current tt was massive ( changed arm and cart as well of course ) it might be worth investigating other tt's if time and finances allow, Keith.

[griffo104]

coopee wrote:

Lawrie Hi, i used to run a 'gorbe', orbe platter motor springs feet everything, the step up to the current tt was massive ( changed arm and cart as well of course ) it might be worth investigating other tt's if time and finances allow, Keith.

I disagree, I took my Orbe to Earl's for a bake off last year, I took the deck apart to transport it.

I had the deck setup at Earl's in about 10 minutes, a few witnesses such as TIU, KennyK and Earl himself willconfirm that, with a decent bounce on the suspension with next to no sideways movement. The deck sounded superb considering the length of time it took to setup, this included putting the arm on and checking the VTA and VTF before playing.

It really isn't a complicated deck to set up.

[Emma Royd]

Perhaps after the armboard mod,Michell may consider other's,possibly a new easier way to set up bounce for the springs,dampen the spring covers?

[Lawrie]

griffo104 wrote:

coopee wrote:

Lawrie Hi, i used to run a 'gorbe', orbe platter motor springs feet everything, the step up to the current tt was massive ( changed arm and cart as well of course ) it might be worth investigating other tt's if time and finances allow, Keith.

I disagree, I took my Orbe to Earl's for a bake off last year, I took the deck apart to transport it.

I had the deck setup at Earl's in about 10 minutes, a few witnesses such as TIU, KennyK and Earl himself willconfirm that, with a decent bounce on the suspension with next to no sideways movement. The deck sounded superb considering the length of time it took to setup, this included putting the arm on and checking the VTA and VTF before playing.

It really isn't a complicated deck to set up.

Griffo,

As I stated earlier not everyone is you or me, for thatmatter. Actually, thinking about it, how do you fancy a duelat dawn or dusk to see who will be the first to set-up a completely dismantled Gyro/Orbe and get it working perfectly in under ten minutes?

I agree with you though that Creek has its work cut-out and only mentioned it when looking at its price compared to the established Orbe SE (which I also use). Maybe, Creek intends to use the deck as loss-leader to generate publicity? Only time will tell.

Coopee - it is not a priority right now as my little boy is terrorizing the house at this point in time (he has already damaged two drivers of an Audio Physic Avanti III) but when I do change the Orbe, I'd be be going non-suspended,side-stepping the Oracle Delphi V which I wanted to get.I've only ever owned suspended decks so I think it's time for a change, subject to my 2 year old son's approval.



Enjoy the music™

Lawrie

[griffo104]

Lawrie wrote:

Griffo,

As I stated earlier not everyone is you or me, for thatmatter. Actually, thinking about it, how do you fancy a duelat dawn or dusk to see who will be the first to set-up a completely dismantled Gyro/Orbe and get it working perfectly in under ten minutes?

Lawrie, that does sound fun

I use myself as an example as I am quite possibly the most cack handed person you will ever meet.

I still enjoy listening to the Orbe SE and I'm not sure where I would go from there. With the Technoarm, new NC psu and now the armboard modin place I think it has a charm and funkiness about it nowadays which lets you enjoy the music much more than the 'analytical' sound Michell decks were accused of being, with some justification though, a few years ago.

I'm not sure Creek is a company that can afford to have a loss leader, depends where the deck is being made I suppose, Creek does now get it's entry level gear made out in China.

The MF deck was a horrible hotch potch of all design things rolled in to one, as if the designers weren't sure what to do so they decided to copy lots of different bits from different decks - I see a lot of Clearaudio and Basis in that deck.

I think Marantz did the right thing, get an OEM deck from a known manufactuer, have a little design input and slap your badge on it and price it so it fits in to your one of you 'serious' price ranges.

[ClassikFan]

Picked the kit up from Michell this afternoon. Will have a play this evening.

Had a good chat with Steve. He was asking me about the WigWam.

[ClassikFan]

got my kit home. The new spacers aren't the same height as the old ones. Does this matter?

[Emma Royd]

Had a similair problem with my kit,the ones supplied were too small,they had to send out longer ones.

They were'nt quite as long as the originals but I adjusted the difference(about 2-3mm) with the on the fly vta adjuster.