Audio Emotion  Epiphany Acoustics 
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Super Wammer
    Join Date
     Jul 2007
    Posts
     391
    Location
     Chavfordshire, ,

    Post imported post

    I was listening to a particularly murky recording the other day and I did something I rarely do. I used my media players equalizer and turned the treble way up.

    Because the equalizer is hidden within the player I forgot I'd left it set.

    In short when I returned later and listened to a few tracks I thought how much more vibrant the system was sounding than usual.

    Eventually got to a track with an already piercing treble and realized my mistake.

    Switched equalizer off. System sounded bloody awful, like I'd thrown a duvet over each speaker.

    Within a couple of hours however it had once again become the model of clarity.

    What is going on ? I mean my system is either muddled and confused or it is clean and clear.

    It can't be both, or can it.

    Do our favourite components sound as good as we think or are we simply willing them to sound good.

    Help.
    Once more unto the cheese, dear friends !

  2. #2
    Wammer ultrawomble's Avatar
    Join Date
     Oct 2006
    Posts
     1,721
    Location
     Manchester
    Real Name
     Jim
    Turn Table
     SL-1210M5G
    Digital Source 1
     Exposure 2010S
    Integrated Amp
     MF A3.5
    Speakers
     MA GS10
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No

    Post imported post

    Hmmmm, perhaps that's the phenomenon of cable/speaker/component 'burn-in' - we become acclimated to a sound so it becomes the norm.

  3. #3
    Super Wammer JANDL100's Avatar
    Join Date
     Dec 2006
    Posts
     12,049
    Location
     Forest of Dean, Glos
    Real Name
     Jerry
    Turn Table
     Technics SL150ii
    T/Arm & Cart
     AT1010 / Orty MC25FL
    SUT/Phono
     Marantz 4230
    Digital Source 1
     Technics SL-P1200 CD
    Digital Source 2
     Arcam DV29 DVDP
    Integrated Amp
     Ming Da MC368-BSE
    Speakers
     MBL 116F
    Power Amp
     NAD S300 integrated
    Headphones
     Grado 325i
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No

    Post imported post

    A can of worms here, I think. ;)

    I think the ear/mind can adjust remarkably well to changes. Things like tonal balance and colouration where no information is added/subtracted can be adjusted to in quite a short period of time. Also a heightened treble can give the illusion of more detail/rez - but it is an illusion (although one that some hifi manufacturers take advantage of!), the info is still there, just not so obvious.

    I remember when I had Quad 63 stats, I went around to a friend who had the older Quad 57 - urrghhh .... they sounded horribly coloured compared to my 63s, but within a few minutes that was forgotten and in some ways the older speakers gave the new ones a bit of a thrashing.


    Life's too short for boring hifi!

  4. #4
    Super Wammer
    Join Date
     Jul 2007
    Posts
     391
    Location
     Chavfordshire, ,

    Post imported post

    JANDL100 wrote:
    A can of worms here, I think. ;)
    I hope not. I don't want this thread to become a believer/sceptic punch up. I asked this question in all seriousness.

    I was genuinely shocked by how muffled the system sounded and later by how it seemed perfectly normal again.

    Clearly the system didn't sound different, my perception merely changed.

    Once more unto the cheese, dear friends !

  5. #5
    Super Wammer dudywoxer's Avatar
    Join Date
     Jul 2005
    Posts
     6,428
    Location
     sunny scunny
    Real Name
     colin
    Turn Table
     Rega P9
    T/Arm & Cart
     RB 1000 Apheta
    SUT/Phono
     ios
    Digital Source 1
     saturn
    Digital Source 2
     squeeze box touch
    Speakers
     spen A6
    Pre Amp
     Rega Cursa
    Power Amp
     Rega Exon
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No

    Post imported post

    I think your brain (when we have one) compensates, or probably adjusts to what it is hearing until you accept the information you are receiving. That is until something so obviously wrong comes along that you can not accept it. That is also I believe why a lot of quick fire A/B dems give at best misleading, and at worst false results. We have a tendency to take change as better, especially brighter changes, as it gives the false impression of more detail. I am fairly sure its sometimes used to the demonstrators advantage when they are setting up auditions. By careful placement in the playing order they can 'push' the sound artefact's of the ''chosen'' kit.
    Music is an outburst of the soul

  6. #6
    Super Dooper Wammer Cable Monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
     May 2006
    Posts
     5,517
    Location
     Birmingham, UK
    Real Name
     Henry
    Turn Table
     A R Legend (TTT)
    T/Arm & Cart
     PU7/Black Beauty SPX
    SUT/Phono
     HM7 / Tron 7 MM
    Digital Source 1
     Teac P700
    Digital Source 2
     Squeezebox Touch
    DAC
     Metrum Octave
    Speakers
     10 inch Tannoys
    Pre Amp
     Sonic Euphoria PLC
    Power Amp
     ARC D70 mkII
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No

    Post imported post

    A few years ago they did an experiment where individuals were fitted with glasses that inverted everything they looked at. Everything was upside down. Within a few days the brain had sorted everything out and these people were then seeing everything normally. Removing the glasses then inverted everything again until the brain corrected the issue. I think we under estimate how well our brain helps our senses to adjust to the things in our environment we cannot escape from. I learned to tune out the noise a 3.5kva petrol generator made that I was required to sleep only a few yards from. If the generator developed a fault (or ran out of fuel) I would wake up immediately. I personally try not to assess anything in isolation. When I wasevaluating a modified componentI had a stock original to comapre it to. When listening to my Denon DVD2900 which is a work in progress, I go back to my Sony ES CD player as a reference every so often. The brain needs to be challenged or it becomes lazy.
    Let me get this straight. You take a perfectly good CD and put it in a DVD player??!!

  7. #7
    Wammer mosfet's Avatar
    Join Date
     Jul 2005
    Posts
     5,981
    Location
     Surrey
    Real Name
     Richard
    Turn Table
     Ibanez
    T/Arm & Cart
     DiMarzio
    SUT/Phono
     EH Big Muff
    Integrated Amp
     Engl
    Speakers
     Celestion
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No

    Post imported post

    Everything we hear is a processed event. The processing goes on in the squidgy stuff between our ears. The idea hearing is a simple model of sound waves bouncing off eardrums sending impulses to our brains really is far too simplistic. There’s much more to it.

    So, adjustment of this sort is nothing remarkable, quite normal.

    Other examples include digital signal processing effects, which exploit the brains processing of sound to manufacture a desired perception, and the influence of personal expectation on perceived sound e.g. auto-suggestion.



  8. #8
    Super Wammer
    Join Date
     Jul 2007
    Posts
     391
    Location
     Chavfordshire, ,

    Post imported post

    Cable Monkey wrote:
    A few years ago they did an experiment where individuals were fitted with glasses that inverted everything they looked at. Everything was upside down. Within a few days the brain had sorted everything out and these people were then seeing everything normally. Removing the glasses then inverted everything again until the brain corrected the issue. I think we under estimate how well our brain helps our senses to adjust to the things in our environment we cannot escape from. I learned to tune out the noise a 3.5kva petrol generator made that I was required to sleep only a few yards from. If the generator developed a fault (or ran out of fuel) I would wake up immediately. I personally try not to assess anything in isolation. When I wasevaluating a modified componentI had a stock original to comapre it to. When listening to my Denon DVD2900 which is a work in progress, I go back to my Sony ES CD player as a reference every so often. The brain needs to be challenged or it becomes lazy.
    Yes, I have developed that facility with certain members of my family.
    Once more unto the cheese, dear friends !

  9. #9
    Price Discovery Bitch i_should_coco's Avatar
    Join Date
     Sep 2006
    Posts
     20,752
    Location
     Luton Airport
    Real Name
     Coco-san
    Turn Table
     Voyd Reference
    T/Arm & Cart
     AN Arm-3/Io Ltd.
    SUT/Phono
     AN S9/DIY LCR
    Digital Source 1
     Laptop/JRiver
    DAC
     Nadja
    Integrated Amp
     Disintegrated maybe
    Speakers
     Landfill Olympians
    Pre Amp
     Nadja DSP
    Power Amp
     Mainly borrowed
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No

    Post imported post

    This is why neutrality is perhaps overrated. How can you tell what is neutral anyway, when after 10 mins it starts to sound normal. This is the danger in doing fast A-B comparisons, they can be extremely mis-leading.
    CD players - computer audio for dummies.

  10. #10
    Wammer
    Join Date
     Jul 2005
    Posts
     1,498
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     Yes

    Post imported post

    JANDL100 wrote:
    A can of worms here, I think. ;)

    I think the ear/mind can adjust remarkably well to changes. Things like tonal balance and colouration where no information is added/subtracted can be adjusted to in quite a short period of time. Also a heightened treble can give the illusion of more detail/rez - but it is an illusion (although one that some hifi manufacturers take advantage of!), the info is still there, just not so obvious.

    I remember when I had Quad 63 stats, I went around to a friend who had the older Quad 57 - urrghhh .... they sounded horribly coloured compared to my 63s, but within a few minutes that was forgotten and in some ways the older speakers gave the new ones a bit of a thrashing.

    Ah! So could this be an explanation for that running-in or burn-in excusethat audiophiles like to use for when a new audio component is not living up to expectations? A few (hundred) hours later and all is forgotten and that new audio component becomes the next best thing and thrashes the component they replaced.;)The mind is wonderful thing isn't it yet we know so little about how it works.



    Enjoy the music™

    Lawrie


    Off the beaten track lies the music......just waiting to be discovered.

  11. #11
    Wammer opusover21's Avatar
    Join Date
     Mar 2007
    Posts
     3,457
    Location
     Next door
    Real Name
     Mrs Brown
    Digital Source 1
     Mac mini, SSD
    Digital Source 2
     Amarra, FireWire
    DAC
     Weiss DAC2
    Speakers
     Beolab 5
    Pre Amp
     In speakers
    Power Amp
     Class D ICEpower
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No

    Post imported post

    Lawrie wrote:

    Ah! So could this be an explanation for that running-in or burn-in excusethat audiophiles like to use for when a new audio component is not living up to expectations? A few (hundred) hours later and all is forgotten and that new audio component becomes the next best thing and thrashes the component they replaced.

    Not so sure about that....i know i have swapped between old and new boxes of the same model and still heard a significant difference...but do agree that tastes change and sometimes we are more accomodating...certainly when just stumping up the odd £1000 here and there..lol



  12. #12
    Super Dooper Wammer Cable Monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
     May 2006
    Posts
     5,517
    Location
     Birmingham, UK
    Real Name
     Henry
    Turn Table
     A R Legend (TTT)
    T/Arm & Cart
     PU7/Black Beauty SPX
    SUT/Phono
     HM7 / Tron 7 MM
    Digital Source 1
     Teac P700
    Digital Source 2
     Squeezebox Touch
    DAC
     Metrum Octave
    Speakers
     10 inch Tannoys
    Pre Amp
     Sonic Euphoria PLC
    Power Amp
     ARC D70 mkII
    Headphones
     
    In the Hi-Fi industry?
     No

    Post imported post

    Lawrie wrote:
    JANDL100 wrote:
    A can of worms here, I think. ;)

    I think the ear/mind can adjust remarkably well to changes. Things like tonal balance and colouration where no information is added/subtracted can be adjusted to in quite a short period of time. Also a heightened treble can give the illusion of more detail/rez - but it is an illusion (although one that some hifi manufacturers take advantage of!), the info is still there, just not so obvious.

    I remember when I had Quad 63 stats, I went around to a friend who had the older Quad 57 - urrghhh .... they sounded horribly coloured compared to my 63s, but within a few minutes that was forgotten and in some ways the older speakers gave the new ones a bit of a thrashing.

    Ah! So could this be an explanation for that running-in or burn-in excusethat audiophiles like to use for when a new audio component is not living up to expectations? A few (hundred) hours later and all is forgotten and that new audio component becomes the next best thing and thrashes the component they replaced.;)The mind is wonderful thing isn't it yet we know so little about how it works.



    Enjoy the music™

    Lawrie

    It explains short term adjustments. It doesn't explain changes over the longer term which is normally when burning in is proported to happen
    Let me get this straight. You take a perfectly good CD and put it in a DVD player??!!

  13. #13
    Guest

    Post imported post

    As Mosfet said, it's a hugely complicated sense with both physical response and mental calculation having huge impact on perceived sound.

    I spent a whole day reading about hearing a few months ago and it staggered me, a lot of the science was a bit tricky to switch over to layman's terms but it's worth reading about nonetheless.

    Great place to start is here.

  14. #14
    Guest

    Post imported post

    This page is very interesting.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •