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Linn Owners Club and Forum

  1. What's new in this club
  2. @TooManyCatweazles @Eldarboy Thanks for mentioning the AV5140's. What would you deem a reasonable price for a pair with original stones and usual scratches on the surface?
  3. The Exakt link page in Linndocs (https://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Exakt_link) is interesting. Perhaps you looked it up, but I don't think I've seen it since it was last amended. I had always thought that Exakt link used the the Ethernet layer, but it appears this is not the case; only the cable and connector specifications are the same, and indeed a subset of Ethernet cables is preferred. I think that "The Exakt-link has been designed to operate with the CAT-5 cable electrical specifications for signal timings ... We recommend using the 100Base-T4 / 568B ethernet cable pairing" may well be significant, as it suggests that particular cable specifications and pairings may affect signal timings. So you could be correct about jitter. David
  4. Crumbs, I never thought 0.025 of a metre would alter a speaker that much. Just to make sure I’m clear, you’re saying the better results were with fitting the Gaias whilst retaining the previous height setting in SO? But adjusting SO to reflect the increased height weakened the bass.
  5. The biggest challenge is to lend some Keltiks somewhere, and heave them into your place, methinks
  6. Well, I already own a AEBI, this would means swapping the M140 to Kelitik would be straight forward. I spoke to a fellow Linn owner a couple of years ago, actually the seller of my first S/H M140's he ran Kelitiks with x100 amps and klimax analogue cross-overs. He stated that the x100 weren't really up to the job, also note that this was pre-SO. AEBI/K has 8 x 100 amps on-board, so I see a parallel with the x100 amps, however, things being exakt, this might change the outcome. Swapping M140 for Keltiks seems like a killer system (theoretically at least).
  7. The midrange driver (SPKR 007/6) and bass driver (SPKR 007/2MS) for the Kabers had the same size, but different membrane and elektromagnets.
  8. yes it's purely speculation on my part. there maybe different clocks at play here as well, e.g. a transmission clock for data from the sender, and a master DAC sampling clock which needs synchronisation to the data stream. If you do it this way then you only need to synchronise against the data stream in 1 place, at the DAC. If instead the DAC is sending the clocking signal to the DSM, and the DSM is then using that as a transmission clock - I think you potentially introduce additional failure modes. Better in my brain to send a transmission clocking signal along with the data stream, that way you avoid both the DAC and the DSM having to syncronise against receiving and sending the data respectively. anyway, who knows! however Linn have implemented things errors can have an affect.
  9. AFAIK Keltiks don't sport integrated electronics, neither amps, nor Exakt. Thus, they need supporting boxes outside. A good approach - after what i've read on this forum - appears to be the Exaktbox-I which features 8 Exaktbox Channes plus 8 amp channels in one case. What I heard was an Akurate Exaktbox plus separate Akurate amps. More boxes and budget, and most likely a slightly better sound. If you think about moving to Keltiks, think what you have already that coud be re-purposed.
  10. An interesting thought, but I don't know how it squares with the fact that the master clock is in the Exakt engine; as I understand it, the clock in the System Hub is, in effect slaved to the master. Maybe the issue is noise rather than jitter. As the Exakt Link protocol has never been published, it is difficult to speculate. David
  11. The Exakt Akubarik's (with old DAC) certainly aren't noise free. very low noise yes, but it's still there. Agree with that, however in an all digital system it's still there and doing things to improve it does make a difference. it might be very marginal compared to the analogue domain, but all the tiny improvements do add up. There's also lots of different types of noise here that affect things in the different ways in the digital domain. As an example I'd used one of @Johannes's tips which address very real problems. The Exakt link cable makes a difference - why is that? Linn state not to use CAT 7+ cable because it can adversely impact the timing on the digital cable. Having tried this you can hear the difference, things are grainier with the wrong cable. What's happening? my guess would be the DAC is trusting the DSM's timing signal which is being thrown off ever so slightly by increase capacitance due to the shielding. the graininess might be then be DAC jitter. His other advice like don't have dirty power sources in the same power strip as the DSM also has good reasoning and does stop noise being created in the DSM. I think part of the issue is that people don't recognise lots of these kinds of noise in their system, mainly because they usually don't get introduced (we're good at spotting changes), instead they tend to be there from the beginning. The start of this thread was just focusing in on the background noise floor as a way to compare systems. That doesn't mean that DAC jitter noise from the wrong Exact cable couldn't exist on the quietest of system which has no background noise floor....
  12. Not as I understand the term "noise". I go back to pre-digital days. To me noise is a set of artefacts exogenous to and independent of the signal, and typically does not vary with the signal. As "digital" is just a mental construct (the physical reality is a very large set of voltage changes in a circuit), nothing exogenous to that construct can actually exist. Distortion, on the other hand, is a failure to render the signal correctly when it is being processed. Clearly, distortion will vary with the signal. The interesting paper to which you link lists ways in which the signal can be imperfectly rendered in the course of conversions between analogue and digital; they are, if you like, failures or limitations of the mental construct. Whatever they are called (and the terminology has been used very carelessly at times), they are all forms of distortion, not noise. I believe that the distinction I make is significant in the present context. The OP asked us to describe what is audible from our systems when no signal is present., in other words the noise floor. The discussion he intended was not therefore about what is more correctly called distortion. The issues that are (rather well) described in your reference paper lie outside the subject area of this topic. That said, I would commend the paper to anyone participating in this discussion as it does usefully describe a range of issues confronting those who engineer digital audio systems. The conclusion, that there is no inherent reason why such systems cannot be engineered to perform as effectively as their analogue counterparts, is pretty far-sighted for a document written in 2007, that is at about the same time as the original KDS was launched. It is interesting to speculate how the author would now write that conclusion in the light of the 13 years of intervening experience. After all, today's DSs, DSMs and Exakt systems do actually work rather well. David
  13. Me too. But remember in the Kaber that driver is mid-bass.
  14. I need to listen to them more, however at the moment it's the change in height which is dominating things I think. The sound is much fuller, I've not yet found anywhere that has an on axis measurements for the Akubariks, but I suspect previously that the tweeter and super tweeter don't have a wide enough vertical off-axis response to be able to handle how tall I am. I'd say the lower end is richer somehow too. got to spend more time with them to try to pinpoint exactly what's altered I think. Will report back once I've better figured things out. I'd originally ordered a pair of subdude-ht's but there was trouble sourcing them in the UK, it was going to take 6-8 weeks. but after stumbling on these that were taller I thought it was a great way to kill 2 birds. I'm still planing on moving to Gaias in the future, just need to figure out an acceptable way to increase the height of the speakers when I do. Something for me to do once the new listening room is up and running as i'll be changing the seating as well. what kind of floor do you have? I've seen before what you describe with people who have concrete flooring.
  15. I started out with an Aurelex SubDude under my REL subwoofer, back when I had Ninkas. ‘I liked it so much, I decided to put them under my Akubariks, which also has a downward firing low frequency Isobarik bass.
  16. Would you be interested in a player that outputs using the SCD protocol over the Ethernet, @macfan? This way you got the clocking and DAC from your DS/DSM. The transport is checked with the Accurate Rip database to ensure bit perfect streaming. If you're interested in testing, drop me a line
  17. I have added IsoAcoustic Gaias to my speakers and am very pleased with the results. They place the speakers 2.5cms higher, so I went into SO and made that change (thanks Paul). Sadly, the results were horrid. There was a weakening of the bass and everything else became muddied. I returned to the 2.5 cm reading (I did it as a ratio of a meter, of course) and am back to a splendid sound again.
  18. I bought a pair of these (just because of their name really) and use them under my pair of 226's - they make a huge difference in tightness of the very low end
  19. First listen since my LP12 went Klimax, and I got the Akubariks. Fantastic! "The Ninth Wave" is worth the cost of the entire album.
  20. Of course ‘noise’ is produced in the digital domain: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/digital-myth There any many elements of a digital conversion/transmission process, that can produce, and add ‘noise’ to the digital signal. This may then be evident as various sonic artefacts, and not necessarily (or even likely) audible as analogue ‘noise’.
  21. Let's be clear. Noise does not exist in the digital domain, because noise is a physical manifestation of imperfect signal transmission, and 'digital' has no physical existence, but is simply a construct of the human mind. We are accustomed to say that computers and other digital devices deal only with 0s and 1s, but it would actually be more correct to say that they deal only with instances of 'not voltage' and 'voltage' that are used to represent 0s and 1s respectively . The devices that transmit and process these representations of binary numbers do not 'know' that they are numbers. They're just voltages in electronic circuits, like any other voltages in any electronic circuit. Noise is only attached to a signal in the analogue domain. But it can, and often does, come from associated circuits that deal with the voltages that represent digital data. The noise is always quite separate from the digital data (not least because it is, in effect, analogue), but keeping it out of the circuits that deal with, in particular, the analogue outputs of, say, a DSM or Exaktbox, is a significant engineering challenge. The lack of identifiable noise in akamatsu's Exakt Akubariks is an indication that their noise performance is, as one would expect, exceptional. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that noise is non-existent in the digital domain. For the avoidance of doubt, it is of course the case that the noise content of any analogue signal that is converted to digital will remain part of that signal and become part of the noise content of the eventual (analogue) output. But, when in the digital domain, that pre-existing noise becomes to all intents and purposes an integral part of the digital data stream. It isn't 'digital noise', which does not exist. David
  22. Thanks to all who answered the original question. I have passed on the information to my friend as a starting point. We were both very surprised at the information in @sunbeamgls post - it seems the mid does a lot of work on the Keltiks! We will see how these values work out in practice. Thanks again.
  23. At Kegworth with Majik 126 sub and Akirate Exakt: http://audiophilemusings.blogspot.com/2018/04/post-kegworth-musings-2018.html?m=1