Anyone using a network switch (Melco and the likes), with their DSM? Worth the money?
A must have or not?
A must have or not?
- May 20, 2014
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Not sure what kind of answer you’re expecting here? Several people report using “audiophile” switches and the like, on here. They’re going to say that they make a nice improvement and that they’re great value for money. Others have differing views. It’s definitely a “suck it and see” topic. I can’t think of any “tweak” that has universal acceptance, heck, there’s not even a consensus on using Space Optimisation.
’troll
’troll
I guess Im just intrigued re usage amongst form members. Initial thoughts and views.
Try this for £25. You might like it.
Cisco WS-C2940-8TF-S 8-Port Fast Ethernet 10/100 Switch BRAND NEW SEALED QUIET | eBay
To the point of @Moomintroll , hard topic indeed and the views that you're looking for will be all over the place. We're probably a bit damaged by many of these rabbit holes, discussions ending up in endless back and forth ;-). I am remembering the whole discussion about the impact of ethernet cables pushing it to over 60 pages 
.
But for the sake of experience sharing, at the time, I bought an EtherRegen switch (around $700 or so). Did I hear the difference? I couldn't tell to be honest, also because that was not the only change that i did in my setup at the time so hard to single out the impact of this switch. Obviously expensive in comparison with a standard Cisco switch but the the story around the clock and differences with a standard switch made sense to me so bought it. Price was an acceptable 'risk' for me: "If it doesnt help, at least it doesnt hurt either" (as we say in Dutch). The Melco switch is at a $2K+ price point and that's a different story because that would 'hurt' the bank a bit more and I personally couldn't justify another $1,300 for something i am not believing in a 100%.
Referring to the NGKDSM, it makes way more sense to put your money in this beast. In my opinion, the way the NGKDSM operates with Organik solves for any timing issues that one of those audiophile switches claims to solve for....
. But for the sake of experience sharing, at the time, I bought an EtherRegen switch (around $700 or so). Did I hear the difference? I couldn't tell to be honest, also because that was not the only change that i did in my setup at the time so hard to single out the impact of this switch. Obviously expensive in comparison with a standard Cisco switch but the the story around the clock and differences with a standard switch made sense to me so bought it. Price was an acceptable 'risk' for me: "If it doesnt help, at least it doesnt hurt either" (as we say in Dutch). The Melco switch is at a $2K+ price point and that's a different story because that would 'hurt' the bank a bit more and I personally couldn't justify another $1,300 for something i am not believing in a 100%.
Referring to the NGKDSM, it makes way more sense to put your money in this beast. In my opinion, the way the NGKDSM operates with Organik solves for any timing issues that one of those audiophile switches claims to solve for....
Thank you.To the point of @Moomintroll , hard topic indeed and the views that you're looking for will be all over the place. We're probably a bit damaged by many of these rabbit holes, discussions ending up in endless back and forth ;-). I am remembering the whole discussion about the impact of ethernet cables pushing it to over 60 pages
But for the sake of experience sharing, at the time, I bought an EtherRegen switch (around $700 or so). Did I hear the difference? I couldn't tell to be honest, also because that was not the only change that i did in my setup at the time so hard to single out the impact of this switch. Obviously expensive in comparison with a standard Cisco switch but the the story around the clock and differences with a standard switch made sense to me so bought it. Price was an acceptable 'risk' for me: "If it doesnt help, at least it doesnt hurt either" (as we say in Dutch). The Melco switch is at a $2K+ price point and that's a different story because that would 'hurt' the bank a bit more and I personally couldn't justify another $1,300 for something i am not believing in a 100%.
Referring to the NGKDSM, it makes way more sense to put your money in this beast. In my opinion, the way the NGKDSM operates with Organik solves for any timing issues that one of those audiophile switches claims to solve for....
Also running the £25 Cisco as it has fibre link so I can ignore cables 
I own a Melco S100 and it made a positive improvement in my system (it replaced something like the Cisco mentioned above). FWIW, like @frans5508, I did own an EtherRegen in the past and it didn't make a noticable difference in my system.
When I first purchased the S100, I owned a KDSM/2 (I now own the NGKDSM) and, like I said, I noticed an improvement right away - there was more weight to the sound, PRaT improved and it eliminated a hardness to the sound that I didn't notice previously until it wasn't there any longer. A month or so later, I replaced the stock powersupply with a Farad Super3 and the improvement in bass definition was immediate, it was a "wow" moment, and, at the same time, more details came out on some tracks that I hadn't heard before.
For me, in my system, it is/was a worthwhile purchase.
Be aware that, while the KDSM/2 didn't have any issues with the S100's 100Mb ports for audio, the NGKDSM does not like it - music will stutter and dropout - so I only use the gigabit connections on the switch.
I also run fiber into the S100, but I don't use optical ethernet from the switch to the NGKDSM. I did try using it, but I thought that PRaT was better running copper to the NGKDSM instead of fiber.
I don't know where you are located, but here in the states, Dedicated Audio has a 30 day return policy, so you could try before you buy.
I agree with ‘troll, that the answers you are going to get are all over the map. It seems to be system dependent, and whether your system can resolve the details presented by upgraded switches and accompanying network components.
‘I am most definitely on the side of finding significant improvements in my Linn system, with audiophile switches.
‘I have gone for the full suite of Silent Angel network components, and I could not be more happy. It helps that I have the distributor for these products in Vancouver, so I was able to audition everything in my system first, to see if it makes a difference. All I can say is WOW!!!
Gone is any hint of a digital edge to the music, and now very organic, natural and realistic music. I would suggest very analog sounding.
‘I use 2 Bonn N8 Silent Angel switches, powered by a Silent Angel Forester F1 power supply. I use the Silent Angel C7 Ethernet cables and Silent Angel DC cables from the Forester to the switches.
‘This is not a cheap solution, but IMHO worth every penny for me. YMMV
I recently added a Network Acoustics ENO filter just before my NG KDSM. It made a big (positive) difference. As Paul says, this stuff seems to be system dependent. Plus, few of us get to try more than a couple of the options.
My system is such that going the super audiophile switch route would mean adding two such switches, and just trying them becomes a project. That did not stop me from trying one or two, with variable results.
The effect of the ENO was clear cut: improvement in practically every audiophile category, with no down sides that I could hear. It was also easy to try. Network Acoustics has a 30-day trial period, and ships free worldwide via FedEx. My order made it from the UK to Seattle in three days.
My system is such that going the super audiophile switch route would mean adding two such switches, and just trying them becomes a project. That did not stop me from trying one or two, with variable results.
The effect of the ENO was clear cut: improvement in practically every audiophile category, with no down sides that I could hear. It was also easy to try. Network Acoustics has a 30-day trial period, and ships free worldwide via FedEx. My order made it from the UK to Seattle in three days.
I have heard good things about the ENO from a friend in the UK as well.
‘It is surprising what these components can do
I’m using the Silent Angel switch and power supply. It was a great upgrade for the money.
Try one for free via a friendly dealer.
Try one for free via a friendly dealer.
Great to read pdcman
It is surprising how much improvement the Forester F1 power supply brings to the sound quality, compared to just a single Silent Angel Bonn N8 switch with it’s standard medical grade SMPS power supply
Have you had a chance to try a second Silent Angel Bonn N8 switch in your network? The improvements in my system with the second switch, isolating the music streaming from the rest of the network was almost as big as adding the Forester F1 power supply
The only way is to try one and have a listen. I use HP switches and would recommend them. I have heard a few audiophile switches and thought they were every bit as good as HP switches. Before I retired I worked on a customised switch design for a very fussy customer and it had to meet a set of rigorous standards. The cost was around £2k per unit so I can understand the high price of a bespoke switch. Personally, I am not in to audiophile cables, switches, routers and music servers and prefer to spend money on the DAC and beyond. However, others hear differently so it is a personal choice,
I did buy a new GS305 and use a new USB cable to power it from the spare Forester USB power output. (The GS305 is 5V DC.) The router and Melco/KDS are plugged into the SA, and a CAT 7 cable then feeds out to the GS305 where I have connected my AV stuff to. Its a cool cost effective solution.
Thank you pdcmanI did buy a new GS305 and use a new USB cable to power it from the spare Forester USB power output. (The GS305 is 5V DC.) The router and Melco/KDS are plugged into the SA, and a CAT 7 cable then feeds out to the GS305 where I have connected my AV stuff to. Its a cool cost effective solution.
Personally, I think it is a PSU of any network switch is the key to the high SQ of audio streaming.
Just think about it, almost invariably every time I hear about a pundit saying some sort of SQ improvement is the time when he switches to a good PSU for his network switch, or a network switch with a good built-in PSU (eg of this is InnuOS PhoenixNet).
Just think about it, almost invariably every time I hear about a pundit saying some sort of SQ improvement is the time when he switches to a good PSU for his network switch, or a network switch with a good built-in PSU (eg of this is InnuOS PhoenixNet).
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I have a Chord Co English Electric 8 (very like the Bonn Silent Angel N8) on home-dem at the moment – £500. I can't say how it compares to other switches, but it's definitely a big improvement on plugging directly into the router.
Results of my home-dem (using local source QNAP SilentNas; Linn NG Klimax Hub, Ekakt Akubariks):
(1) TP-Link (£12) vs EE8 (£500). First shock was how good the TP-Link sounded, straight out of the box. Not at all 'tinny' as I'd expected. After a decent period of running in and listening, I swapped it for the EE8. It was immediately obvious what I'd been missing. The EE8 was clearly better, though in a fairly subtle way, with superior tone and more realistic rendering of vocals and instruments. Conclusion to this part of the dem was that any switch is better than direct connection with the router, but that the EE8 would be worth the money in my system.
(2) PhoenixNet vs EE8. After a couple of days getting used to the EE8, the Innuos switch arrived today (on home-dem for the rest of the week). My immediate thought after very little warm up (it's a well used unit): very impressive indeed, better by a considerably margin than the EE8 – powerful, smooth and refined, with lower noise floor, darker blacks, and more weight.
The only doubt (though only slight) in my mind is that there’s some trickery going on inside the box that is manipulating/adding to the sound in some way. I'm hearing so much more of everything, it's almost as though the sound is being amplified (it certainly seems louder). Or this could just be the result of noise and interference being removed from the stream.
So I’m on the look out for a downside. The Innuos deals very well with some notoriously difficult recordings in my collection which have a tendency to harshness. But does it exaggerate some features at the expense of others? Will the best reference recordings sound exaggerated or bloated?
We shall see.
(1) TP-Link (£12) vs EE8 (£500). First shock was how good the TP-Link sounded, straight out of the box. Not at all 'tinny' as I'd expected. After a decent period of running in and listening, I swapped it for the EE8. It was immediately obvious what I'd been missing. The EE8 was clearly better, though in a fairly subtle way, with superior tone and more realistic rendering of vocals and instruments. Conclusion to this part of the dem was that any switch is better than direct connection with the router, but that the EE8 would be worth the money in my system.
(2) PhoenixNet vs EE8. After a couple of days getting used to the EE8, the Innuos switch arrived today (on home-dem for the rest of the week). My immediate thought after very little warm up (it's a well used unit): very impressive indeed, better by a considerably margin than the EE8 – powerful, smooth and refined, with lower noise floor, darker blacks, and more weight.
The only doubt (though only slight) in my mind is that there’s some trickery going on inside the box that is manipulating/adding to the sound in some way. I'm hearing so much more of everything, it's almost as though the sound is being amplified (it certainly seems louder). Or this could just be the result of noise and interference being removed from the stream.
So I’m on the look out for a downside. The Innuos deals very well with some notoriously difficult recordings in my collection which have a tendency to harshness. But does it exaggerate some features at the expense of others? Will the best reference recordings sound exaggerated or bloated?
We shall see.
Having 35+ years of experience as an IT professional with experience in network design and packet analysis it is pretty difficult for me to understand how a network switch can make any difference in sound. Unless there is extensive packet loss during the data transmission process (TCP will take care of any transmission errors) or massive network congestion (doubt it in a home environment) the only impact I can foresee is gaps in the music due empty buffers in the streamer, nothing more, nothing else.
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