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Showing content with the highest reputation on 29/07/21 in all areas

  1. The big stand mount subjective, comparative, conclusion. Sorry for the long post but I am trying to be helpful to others. Firstly I have you lot to blame/thank for this speaker odyssey, so, thank you! And thanks to @ChemMan for showing how a speaker quest should be done and how I failed to meet his high standard of execution! I got to listen to the following: ATC SCM11, Dali Rubicon 2, Harbeth P3SER, Harbeth M30.2XD, Marten Duke 2, Neat Iota Alpha, Proac DB3, Proac DB1, Proac D2, QAcoustics 3020i, Rogers LS5/9 and another that I can’t remember. ALL of the speakers were well run in and also they were positioned as they would need to be at home ie close to the rear wall. And if they didn’t work well in that 'close to wall' position then too bad; the Marten suffered the most from this which was a shame - or a relief as they were £7k The amp used at the first dealer visit was a Marantz PM10 (that sounds similar to my PM11S2) At home an ARC SP17 and D130 was principally used and briefly a Quad Artera Stereo power amp used in case the ARC D130 was doing anything weird - it wasn’t and it was more neutral than the Quad. At the final dealer session we tested principally using a Luxman E380 and finally on Hegel 390 and Norma Riva IPA 140. Dealer streamer was my Auralic Altair G1 and at home streamer an Innuos Zen Mini mk3 with Innuos p/s and Wave Stream Premium cable. Speaker cables at home were Atlas Hyper 3.5 and Tellurium Black 2. A recap so that the conclusion makes sense. I own Harbeth P3ESR and SHL5 and I wanted a physically smaller speaker than the SHL5 but bigger than the P3ESR and a smaller profile than the Harbeth M30 that could also work close to a rear wall and be used in a room that has a big bass node. To be used with a Marantz PM11S2 or maybe my newly acquired ARC SP17/D130 or maybe an Accuphase E380. And a decent t/t and streaming front end. People like to know what is the 'best speaker' but in reality it just depends on a lot of things and so this is a comparative assessment is based only on these items in my room and using my ears; your room, kit and ears are not mine and you may get different results and prefer other things. hopefully I have written in a way that will be helpful to others. This speaker quest didn't go as expected. And during the process I was leaning heavily in a certain direction ie the BBC sound. Let's get right to it. The ATC was a real pain initially to get working with my room. It really needs everything else in the chain to be right for it to sound good (or it just reveals rubbish) otherwise it can me 'too much of a good thing' as the midrange is a little more pronounced and detailed than others. The initial problem was using the laptop as a source and not having a rug on the floor and I strongly suspect that the speakers were not run in fully. But once the Innuos was installed the ATCs run in there were some really great moments especially on vocals and any midrange instruments. The SCM11 were super coherent, diction was really clear, clearer than Harbeth, fast and deep bass (enough for me), great tone, and easy to position. And a really appalling grill design and ‘sticky’ woofers and the veneer finish isn’t as good as Harbeth. Harbeth M30.2XD and Rogers LS5/9 didn't sound right to me in this comparative group. I found that weird as I love my Harbeths. The M30.2XD was great in many ways with all of the usual Harbeth midrange magic. But using the E380 they lacked the rhythmic cohesion that they had had on the Marantz; although this still couldn’t match the ATC. The other speakers didn't suffer the amp change to the same degree. And so whilst I was secretly hoping that the Harbeth's might pull through they didn't. And the Rogers on the first visit also lagged behind (pun intended) as the bass really lagged compared to the others. Proac DB3 became the early front runner and I had the DB3 on home demo for 5 days. They were a great speaker but ultimately didn't have a sufficiently fleshed out midband. The treble was very open (in an amazing way) and very slightly a little bit forward but ‘ok’ and not particularly fatiguing. I understand why people like the Proac treble. The DB3 also compared to the ATC didn't have enough bass but it was a really great speaker, easy to listen to, and would suit a lot of people and so I needed to audition the DB1 and D2. In the meantime the ATCs came back on home demo for four days before going to listen to the Proacs at the dealer and so I had a really great idea of how they sounded; they sounded great and it was difficult to fault them. At the dealers we started with ATCs as their amp and room were different. Once I had acclimatised to the sound we then put on the DB1. The dealer had sold the DB3 that I had previously listened to and so it was just a comparison vs the ATC. The great news was that the DB1 had a fleshed out midrange. Not quite as much as the ATC but there was less of a gap than there was with the DB3. So far so good. But on bass they struggled as had the DB3. A great sounding speaker but I really wanted a deeper bass, physics count, and so they were out. (Sorry @radiant red). Next up were the Proac D2 (with dome tweeter and not the ribbon) More bass! Great! Not really. Sorry to say that the bass was flabby and a bit boomy compared to the ATC. Given that a) I can’t reposition them in my room and and they must work near a rear wall and b) my room has a bass node they had also to be counted out. Nothing else about them mattered. All of the Proac speakers had a very similar high frequency response. I was hugely disappointed that the Proacs hadn’t worked better for my circumstances. They are great speakers and I recommend that they are on your shortlist but we all have our own criteria and preferences. Hmmm what now? Lets try the Harbeth M30.2XD again even though they are physically a bit wide. Start with Earl Klugh and its wonderful. And some chilled Herbie Hancock from his Sunlight album and again great. Then Pretenders Talk of the Town. I wanted to get up and slap the M30s! They just couldn’t pull the performance together in a way that the ATCs and Proacs could. And so they were out; I couldn’t believe it! I had wanted to listen to the Graham LS6 but was let down by two dealers and still have not got to hear them. And I had also wanted to listen to some Falcon IMF100s but they are not available for demo at the manufacturer or at home right now. But based on my Harbeth and Rogers experience I am seriously doubt that they will be ’the ones’. The LS6 are described as 'warm'. The ATCs are not warm. And if the LS6 will obscure some detail then that’s not going to be great. They cannot be warm and yet as detailed as the ATC, especially if the Proac, which isn’t warm, isn’t as detailed as the ATC. Back on go the ATC SCM11. Do you know the Police song Bring on the Night from Reggatta de Blanc? At 27 seconds the guitar part is really interesting. On the Proac DB1 and D2 the playing style was a little obscured. On the ATC it was very clear. Wow that was a complete surprise. The ATC has a way of making things very clear and precise without falling into non-musical; so long as the rest of the chain is feeding it well as I can imaging that it could sound a bit ’non-musical'. The other thing about the ATCs in particular is that diction is also much clearer. This lyrics that you were slightly unsure of are now more obvious. Being a keyboard player and bass guitar player I don’t listen to the words of my favourite songs just the vocal melody and all of the instruments. But I actually found myself listening to and paying attention to the actual lyrics. That’s never happened ever. The interesting thing also is that compared to the Proac the treble is not so open. Some people will prefer the Proac for this reason alone but the ATC treble presentation is one that I am more used to. What effect did the amps have on the ATC? Compared to the Accuphase E380 the Hegel 390 had more bass and a less tonally rich sound. The extra bass in the dealers room tipped the bass to being ’too much bass’. At home in Nottingham it would not be a problem but maybe in Portugal it would be. Regarding tonality some may say that the Accuphase was coloured and therefore incorrect but I think that the Hegel was coloured in that it didn’t have enough of it. However we were using an Auralic Altair G1 and if we had used an Innuos the results may well be different (The ATCs will be used with my Auralic Altair G1). The Norma was also like the Hegel ie a great amp. Right now I really can’t remember that I didn’t like about it but in comparison to the Accuphase it lacked something. Having said that we were listening to the entire signal chain in a specific room. Results will be different in other rooms and systems. All of the amps were great of they were your thing. The interesting thing about the amp swaps was that it helped me to understand how flexible the Proacs and ATCs would be if I ever do change anything in my system. I have run enough variables now to know for example that a Hegel 390 and Proac D2 would produce way too much bass in my lounge. Also that if I find the ATCs are too bass light in my room in Portugal that an Accuphse would probably not be the answer and something like the Hegel might be a good idea. So the ATC is a reasonably safe choice in terms of bass output and speaker positioning. It also sounds great. So what is not to like about the ATC? Right now on a musical level I am struggling to find a problem based on these comparisons. None of the speakers are good in all areas but the ATCs seem good in all areas according to may tastes. Depending on what flavour you like others may be better for you. We have to talk about the elephant in the room. Have you ever been introduced to a possible partner by a friend who says “I know that he/she is a bit ugly but wait until you taste their cooking!” Why oh why did ATC chose grills that are a) ugly and b) do not protect the drivers from dust? The drivers appear to be ’sticky’ on both of the dealer pairs whereas the Proacs and others are not ’sticky'. I am concerned about the woofers getting dirty over time as the dust sticks to them. I have a dust allergy and also like everything to be clean and so this is a real concern. Hmmm. I still have the ATC at home and also have an E380. Will listen for a few more days and make a decision. Hope that this was useful to someone.
    7 points
  2. I also think they should be careful what they wish for Max has a very cavalier driving style and tries to bully and frighten other drivers to change their styles to suit his own version of being reckless . If they gain any advantage over this then they will leave the door open to other teams to make cases against Max in the future and they will have little room for avoiding that. I think they would be much better advised dropping this and concentrating on going forward .
    5 points
  3. Nice write up Dom. I think you are on the money in may regards, here: the ATC sounds like a very neutral chameleon and this is my experience as well albeit using the SCM40. I'm surprised to hear you say the Hegel 390 sounded coloured. The 190 certainly has a darker sound, but I found the 390 to be an exceptional amp whilst the Accuphase 280 or its' immediate predecessor, was slightly too polite for me. I have not heard the 380 however. When a think of "tonally rich" my mind wanders toward the "microwave." The ribbon tweeter on the Proac D30rs is quite possibly the nicest I heard in my testing. Even now i remember the liquidity of the strings section. Midrange-wise I felt it was somewhat warm. You've done well, made a nice purchase on the demo, and I'd say you are now the definitive authority on standmounts. Mind you, you did skip the Kefs and Dynaudios. Cheers Brother Chem
    4 points
  4. Ok you lot persuaded me to listen to ATC and I did. I did a big write up in the stand mount shootout thread about my listening tests and their competition. The ATC was the last speaker that I thought that Inwould buy based on some people’s opinion of them. Today I agreed with my dealer to buy the demo pair of SCM11s at my home.
    4 points
  5. From our recent trip to Northumberland. A lovely evening on Holy island. Canon 5D4 + 24-105L, 1/40s @ f13, ISO100 raw. PP in ACR & NikCFX
    4 points
  6. ....and I wonder what they would make of us - Spending small fortunes on Vinyl rigs; obsessing about Speakers; messing about with Valves; arguing about DACs; never being happy with our systems; falling out over Cables. They would consider us barking mad - and they'd be right. It makes Dressage look sane.
    4 points
  7. A good many folks will know KJF audio and their very cost effective speaker kits and amps . thought i would start an owners thread . some years back i had some of of the fugalhorn XL which are horn speakers and enjoyed them . they were not perfect but nothing ever is . and i have never listened to so much female vocals in my life Many wammers have tried lots of class D amps including me over many years . over past 2 years i have had some humble icepower asx50 which have really been delightful with tannoy eaton speakers . Class D still has a bit of a stigma as cold and sterile but i dont find that at all . there are lots of brands of class D and we have nord owners group here on the wam and ps audio [ which have icepower edge] . so KJF have started doing their own amps which are extremely well priced and some have tried them . the KJF sa-01 stereo is a under 700 quid and the monoblocks under 1200 quid for a pair . they use hypex modules . the amp currently here is a nc 502 hypex. these are some pics to show size of amp compared to my asx 50 ghent audio . The sound into the tannoys is quite a full bass and certainly not sterile . vocals sound natural and i just love the red standby light which turns to green when in use . they run reasonably warm to touch and the XLR sockets and fittings are good quality . certainly worth trying . It would be good to try them against the psaudio monoblocks which are well over double the price of the sa-01 . [ ps audio m700]
    3 points
  8. Good news, the case brought by RB has been thrown out.. Unfortunately it seems that ‘additional allegations’ raised by RB has been ‘noted’. It’s a shame that RB has run this agenda, when in 99.9% of other similar situations the decision of the stewards has been broadly accepted, and not contested after the event.. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/58014629
    3 points
  9. I’m relieved in a funny sort of way that you’ve come to like the ATCs, or at least respect them in the end. I’d recognise that they aren’t necessarily lovable in the way that my old Sonus fabers were, but they do such a good job it’s hard not to like and admire them. (When I auditioned the SCM40 versus other £3k speakers they were the ones without any idiosyncrasies, though the ProAc D20r were close in some areas). I also didn’t think much of the grilles at first, but they do physically protect the drivers, unlike a bit of stretchy cloth. And I’ve grown to like the slightly industrial look! You’ve probably highlighted why not everyone gets on with ATC, because they don’t make a silk purse from anything. But overall they are about as balanced a sound as you can get for the outlay, and probably more transparent than almost anything similar.
    3 points
  10. The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds. Vinyl....
    3 points
  11. Davey, I think we have to agree on disagreeing, we obviously hear things completely differently. Mind you, I've only heard the Furutech outlet with rhodium-plated main conductors. Yes, you could hear more details, but musically it was totally lost and disjointed. The groove went completely missing, no thanks!
    3 points
  12. Royal Mail OBA - Delivery track only Royal Mail Signed For - Only posting and delivery tracks, nothing in between Royal Mail Tracked 24/48 - Show multiple tracking notes, and delivered. (signature is optional) Royal Mail Special Delivery - Full tracking with signature (currently before 3pm, normally before 12pm and 9am pre Covid) They refund the shipping charge pretty quickly on Special Delivery items that dont arrive next day. For the other services you have to wait up to 14 days to approach for a refund.
    3 points
  13. Grey & gold: Fuji X-T2/XF23-1.4R
    3 points
  14. Hi, Any tracking i have seen for Royal Mail, only tells you when it has been delivered. Other delivery companies provide much more detail such as where the van is now, how many stops before it gets to you etc. Regards, Shadders.
    3 points
  15. Talking Heads - Fear Of Music.
    3 points
  16. ZZ Top - The First Album. CD.... in memory of the bassist Dusty Hill passed away in his sleep aged 72 R.I.P Dusty
    3 points
  17. Sorry to intrude but the best courier I have used is UPS , Put the item in proper packing and job done , Never had a issue , Just recently I purchased some Canon photo gear , The seller droped it of at a UPS drop of shop at 12 03 and it was delivered next morning at 09.05 all the way from Scotland down to London , Not even a dent or mark on the box , How the hell do they do it Excelent service . Most damage is caused by items not being packed correctly buy the sellers Opps sorry , I'm rambling now
    3 points
  18. ZZ Top - Rio Grande Mud 1972 Tidal RIP Dusty Hill
    3 points
  19. Why is everyone in this thread presuming that it can only be jitter and its improvement that the Mutec or other clocking device is doing better to improve the sound . If you are rock solid that improving the jitter is not possible in your DAC but a Mutec makes it sound better then it is obviously not jitter. So what is it doing ? Why have those that used it keep saying that it improves the sound , please do not put out the same old bias argument because as has been said that works both ways . I think the way forward is for those that have never tried it do so and lets us all know what you found . For those who find that it does improve the sound try and find out why ? At the end of this it all comes down to the same thing , listen to music , enjoy it let it enrich your life . Anything that has me still listening as I am nodding off because I just want to hear the next piece is good and it works .
    3 points
  20. I reportedly recently that a golden coloured growth had occurred on top of my rack. Fortunately it went away but it’s happened again and this time it’s even bigger!! Just on demo for now……
    3 points
  21. I usually drive my SoundLAB speakers (full range electrostatic) with two mono Audio Research VT-150 (vacuum tube) amplifiers but lately I also been trying a single stereo Linn KLOUT and I find it does an excellent job overall. The perspective and focus of that lens peering into the window of the music is quite different between the two of them but equally as enlightening. Each amplifier has its own presentation of the overall soundstage: but both are very pleasing to the listener via these ELS speakers (musically balanced and no crossovers with stellar phase and transient response). Applause to the KLOUT design team at Linn…..thirty years ago.
    2 points
  22. The problem is with transistor amplifiers .. when they clip the cut off the top of the waveform to almost a square wave and produce high frequency distortion which will burn out a tweeter's voice coil as it tries to reproduce the high frequency distortion as sound. @ Valve amps tend to "soft clip" and do not flatten the waveform to the same extent (some transistor amps introduced circuitry to do a similar process) and so there is far less chance of burning out a tweeter. This explains the problem in solid state amps but I could not find on a quick search the explanation for valves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio) Again I see you (like a lot of newbies) have not filled in your profile to show where you are (location) and what you have (hifi equipment) .. this data is invaluable on two counts - you can contact local wammers (or they can contact you) with offers of help - or just to meet and listen to each others systems. Second us knowing what equipment you have makes it easier to offer comment or advice when sought. Welcome to the Wam - we are a friendly bunch (with a few grumpy old gits like me) enjoy
    2 points
  23. RIP Dusty ZZ Top - Tres hombres Vinyl
    2 points
  24. Thats great news if the penalty had been changed it would have opened the door for every penalty to be contested tying F1 up in legal challenges.
    2 points
  25. Hi J, no, I was a little confused as you are not like that. I am building two systems. The ARC is for the studio and I am thinking about upgrading the Marantz and have been quite taken by the Accuphase that has a very valve-like richness to its presentation but has drive and immense resolution compared to everything else that I am listening to. I have just finished listening to a Linn streamer (£3k) and Krell amp (£9k) with ATC SCM 19 at my local dealer and it sounded great but will stick with Accuphase for now as it seemed further ahead. And I have agreed to buy the demo SCM11.
    2 points
  26. Yup sad news.. lots of memories around the late 70’s early 80’s involving their music
    2 points
  27. Totally the opposite with my experience. Proving amplification is critical. Too many people buy on reviews alone. My experience with the cheaper ATC’s are far from satisfactory to the point of lethargic and ear bending whereas the active side excels on a decent pre (obviously) Everyones opinions will differ, naturally. Doesn’t mean one speaker is bad and the other is good but it’s all about experience, trial and error.
    2 points
  28. Bought the wife a beautiful fur coat made from 200 hamster skins. We went to Blackpool the following week and I couldn't get her off the big wheel for 2 days .
    2 points
  29. Good write up, thanks. I am sure that will be of help to a lot of people. And well done for trying so many speakers, both at home and at the dealer. You’re right about a speaker having to match your circumstances. What you say about the ATC’s doesn’t surprise me, as there’s something ‘right’ about how they do rhythms and bass. Once you get used to a sealed box, it can then all sound a bit boomy and disjointed when going back to ported speakers (unless well placed, well away from all walls etc). Like you, I thought the bass was ideal in quantity on the ATC’s in my room (plus perfectly integrated and tuneful), whereas a lot of people will find them bass-light. I’ve not heard the P3ESRs, but obviously own the similar specced Spendor 4/5’s, and I thought the ATC’s offered a similar bass, but maybe that extra 10% in depth and weight, which was perfect. Conversely, the Kef LS50 (or Dynaudio Special 40) for example, had just that bit too much for my tastes and lacked the last word in seamlessness and tautness. Again, it’s all relative though, as many people even find those speakers bass-light and pair them with subs. So room and taste dependent. They’re massive, but you may even want to try the ATC SCM19’s then, as by some accounts they have a little more bass again, while retaining the sealed box tunefulness, and are also reportedly a bit more laid back than the SCM11’s. I had assumed the Proac DB1 would reach deeper and hit harder than the ATC’s though? That surprised me it was the other way round, looking at the specs. Sorry to hear that the D2 sounded a bit boomy, I’d had my eye on those! If it sounded that way at the dealer in free space, then yeah, doesn’t sound like it will work at home near to walls. Shame you didn’t get to try the Graham LS6, but from what I’ve read – whatever that’s worth – they are also quite bloated in the bass, unless given loads of space. Very large rear reflex port. Likewise, with the Harbeth 30.2’s – that’s a pity given how much you like the Harbeth sound. I'd still recommend giving the Spendor 3/1's a listen. But they do have a bass that's notably heavier than the ATC's for example.
    2 points
  30. There is tracking and there's delivery confirmation. Not all services provide the former.
    2 points
  31. Enthusiastic reports from reviewers and new owners of the new Klimax System Hub are not helping to assuage my impatience waiting for mine! My 2018 variant is doing a great job, outshining its Akurate predecessor, of course, but still... Disturbing reports about aluminium shortages and other possible hold-ups (Covid related?) Is anyone receiving their units? How many are Linn supplying to dealers? Will the quoted wait times be extended? Frustrating lack of news. In the days of the old Forum Linn fans were better informed, I think.
    2 points
  32. Thanks Andrew. I started this post 65 pages and 9 months ago and deliberately set out in the title that I was sharing my personal experiences. So many of the posts here are based on no personal experiences at all but on dismissing personal experiences as naive, wishful thinking, expectation bias, psychoacoustics... so some of us try to explain how the boxes of wizardry in front of us might be doing their magic (defending our experiences against the Mighty Theory) ... and then get shot down (or worn down) because we can't produce a scientific paper which explains why what we're hearing is real. It beggars belief. To the man with only a hammer, everything looks like a nail. To the man who read a science book once, everything must be scientifically proven. Tomorrow morning, I'm going to smell some beautiful flowers on my morning walk. When I get back I'm going to start a thread called "why I think flowers smell nice" so people can ask me to prove they do... or they'll put it down to psycho-floristics or something.
    2 points
  33. Well between the two systems we had quite variety of servers and streamers together with preamps and power amps. Also a huge range of music. I used a Music First Baby Ref V2 pre amp and we were careful to keep a preamp in the system even though I normally connect my Dave straight to my power amp. The two rooms were quite different as well. Of course I don’t know, you might bring your R-2R DAC to me and say there, that sounds great and I might agree or I might not agree and that is the folly with all reports of how something sounds. Until you hear it yourself it is just unsubstantiated anecdote (my post included).
    2 points
  34. Genesis - Selling England By The Pound (SACD)
    2 points
  35. We have been getting a spate of reports and comments about potential scam replies to 'wanted' adverts. All of these run along the same lines of someone replying saying either they have what people are looking for, or they know someone who does. The fundamentals are always the same. Payment will be asked for in advance, pictures will be provided and then the 'item' will mysteriously vanish. Together with the seller and your money. Please do your homework and take sensible precautions. If you don't know the seller, then make sure the item can be collected and funds exchanged at that time. Escrow methods and the like are often not worth the paper they're (not) written on, as the 'seller' is always able to provide what appears proof of posting, ownership, etc., so your money is unrecoverable. The majority of these scams are always for an item that is supposedly to be shipped from overseas, or at least far enough away for it to be unrealistic to collect. Most of them are obvious, but some are relatively sophisticated. It's really simple. If you cannot be 100% certain that the item and the seller are genuine, then walk away. No matter how much you want the item, what you don't want is a gap on your rack where it ought to have gone, and a similar gap in your bank account.
    2 points
  36. Pete Namlook - Air 2. *Superb atmospheric electronica.
    1 point
  37. The Beatles - Let it be Naked. Vinyl....
    1 point
  38. In fairness, unlike most manufacturers ATC SCM40s have £2500 worth of drive units in them, which IMO still makes them a bargain at £4K. Take most other manufacturers and you’d have to be looking at £10k - £15k or more till you get drive units of that quality. My PMC FB1i which were near £3k new had £150 worth of Vifa units in them to put it in perspective. And the soft dome mid used in the PB1i which was a £7k or more speaker is an £80 vifa unit.
    1 point
  39. Apologies 1, I did. I am not making or supporting a scientific "claim". I'm trying to understand what I hear; others are trying to turn it into a scientific consideration. Apologies 2, I remember that now, thanks for the reminder. You keep mispelling psychoacoustics by the way (helping not criticising! I do wish the forum had a spellchecker when used on a browser). Re your final point: excellent. Regards, Nigel
    1 point
  40. Denon TU-260L any good to you? At least I think that what it is lol. Free if you pay postage costs. Just sitting in attic taking up space.
    1 point
  41. Creek T40 Hitachi FT 5500 MK2 Both should be well within budget - I actually preferred the Creek - don't think they've ever made a bad tuner
    1 point
  42. What do you call a banana with eyes? A binini.
    1 point
  43. £2.5 k and upwards is indeed taking the mickey for LS3/5a copies. They are expensive to make but never worth more than £1k. Similarly the LS5/9 that are being built by others.
    1 point


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