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lindsayt

Wammer
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lindsayt last won the day on January 1 2011

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About lindsayt

  • Rank
    Wammer
    Experienced Wammer
  • Birthday 12/02/1966

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  • Location
    Huddersfield, , Unit

Wigwam Info

  • Turn Table
    EMT
  • Digital Source 1
    Denon
  • Power Amp/s
    Coincident, Korneff
  • My Speakers
    EV, Bozak

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  1. Considering the rather sub optimum acoustics in the pub hall where you hold the Audio Talk Owston event, that's high praise. It's all down to semantics when it comes to stating that Linns £80k+ Klimax Exakt 350a system is way behind yours. My highly provisional assessment would be that yours has tighter, more tuneful more impactful bass and better unfettered, non-shut-in dynamics in the midrange. All of which makes sense when you look under the bonnet with your speakers having 18" and 12" woofers compared with Linn's 2 x 8" and 1 x 7" woofers. Plus your speakers having midrange units with less moving mass for the electromotive force on offer.
  2. Who is the "they" that you are refering to that you think got the basics right in the first place? Do you mean Ivor T and his dad? Or do you mean Hamish Robertson plus the guys at AR and Thorens with a little bit of input from Ivor T and his dad? The Thorens TD150 which preceded the LP12 and the RD11 was a mid-range turntable in the Thorens group in the late 60's early 70's. The Thorens group made some far more expensive and better engineered and as a result significantly better sounding turntables than the 1973 LP12. If the basics were right on the LP12, then in terms of sound quality they were far more right on the Thorens TD124 and EMT 930. The LP12 of today would be significantly better sounding if it were based on the Thorens TD124 or EMT 930. But it wasn't. It was instead based on mid-range turntables. And therefore the basics of the LP12 were extremely lacking for something that just a few years later would be marketed as "The best turntable in the world" All of this would be laughably funny if it weren't for the thousands of customers that were mislead into buying this mid-range turntable on the basis that it was the best in the world. As an alternative, Linn could have dropped the LP12 as their flagship model and produced a turntable that was based on the Pioneer Exclusive P3 or P3A or the EMT 950. But they never did this. We can speculate as to why this is. My speculation is that is because Linn have always been a marketing lead company and not an engineering lead one. And because Linn has never had a clue as to what really makes up the basics of producing a world class turntable by sound quality. With the same thing applying to their speakers. And amplifiers.
  3. On the power front. If I want to listen to music where the general level as at 80 something dbs at 1 metre in front of my speakers and hitting 95 dbs during transient peaks - which is a generous but not too deafeningly loud volume. What will be drawing more power from the mains: My 2 watt SET into my 102 db efficient nominal 8 ohm corner horns? Or my 150 watt class AB solid state into my 85 db efficient nominal 4 ohm coned & domed speakers?
  4. With good valve amps, it's their ability to sound like there's nothing there, in the midrange, between the source and the speakers when compared to solid state. If a valve amp doesn't sound - relatively speaking - like there's nothing there in the midrange, then it's not a good valve amp. Solid state amps tend to sound robotic / synthetic in the midrange. Although this is all relative, with good solid state amps the difference can be small and subtle when compared to good valve amps. I've yet to come across any valve amps that have the bass grip of good solid state. Although again - depending on the speakers and the particular amps involved, the differences may be small and subtle. It's also worth pointing out that choice of amplifier, once you have a decent one (examples of which can be bought for affordable amounts) is the icing on the cake. And that it's the speakers and analogue source that are the sponge and the filling in the cake. There are too many hi-fi cakes that have fantastic icing with bland sponge and filling.
  5. I attended a phono stage bake-off with Richard Dunn. I'd met him at a few previous bake-offs and hi-fi events and shared a lot of hi-fi forum space with him. After playing the phono section that I'd brought, he asked me what I thought. I told him that I thought it sounded woolly. He nodded and then added that it sounded "small" as well. I nodded in response to his comment. I think that he was testing me. To see if I'd come out with some nonsense. I think I passed his test. I enjoyed attending bake-offs with Richard. There was never any question of being polite about each other's kit. There was a huge amount of being to polite to each other - as people. In that we would talk about the sonic merits of the components in the bake-off with as much openness, honesty and integrity as possible. Because openness, honesty and integrity are things that we both valued a lot as human beings. As an aside, and of relevance to this thread, Richard was very bitter about Linn - mainly as a result of the hi-fi scene in the UK in the 1980's where openness, honesty and integrity were not by-words. At every bake-off that I attended with Richard, we were in total agreement as to what sounded better and why. The only difference being that he would detect and be confident of the differences quicker than me. Which is understandable because he had vastly more experience than me, dating back over decades of comparative listening tests. It's entirely up to each and every person how they conduct themselves at a bake-off. I just want the next time I attend one, that I take a leaf out of Richard's book, and act with openness, integrity and honesty. The Wam forum has a proud history of having a culture of bake-offs and hi-fi gatherings. It's these bake-offs as well as ones organised via other forums that has lead to Linn being outed in the last 20 years. As a company that doesn't make the best sounding hi-fi. And that it is instead a company that has a history of marketing itself as making the best sounding hi-fi. Marketing which many people - including myself in my younger years swallowed. I find it mildly annoying that people that have not attended the bake-offs that I've attended say stuff like "It's all down to personal preference."
  6. My dad's 3rd wife has gotten involved with Chinese audio equipment manufacturing?
  7. So in answer to my question about bake-offs, your (lack of) answer appears to be: ...........0?
  8. I've been to enough hi-fi bake-offs to know that amongst people with either integrity or no-agenda or both, that there's almost always a very good consensus on what equipment or systems sound better and why. Or on whether 2 components or systems sound about equally good, or close enough to each other that it would make sense to buy whatever's cheaper. How many bake-offs have you to been to where someone with integrity or no-agenda disagreed strongly on the relative sonic merits of 2 systems with another person with integrity an no-agenda?
  9. The differences are so large and significant between M140's and EV Sentry III's that the only people that would say that they prefered the sound of the M140's would be people with a commercial or emotional agenda and no integrity. We're talking about differences in detail, dynamics, clarity that are fundamental to the enjoyment of music. For sure, someone with an agenda and a lack of integrity might, in the aftermath of a bake-off proclaim that they thought that the M140's sounded better. And that person may well try to play the "It's all down to personal preferences" card. If that were to happen, it would be a fitting moment for the Linn brand, given what went on in the UK hi-fi press in the 1980's.
  10. For ideas: listen to a range of speakers that aren't low efficiency, low impedance, slimline ported. IE electrostatics, or high efficiency (over 95 dbs/ 2.83v at 1 metre), or large sealed boxes, or open baffle. My particular £600 system would be a £20 Philips CD753, £80 Urei 6230, £415 + £80 in repar parts EV Sentry III, free or £1.49 interconnects, £4 RCA to XLR adapters, £8ish fairly thick non brand speaker cable. Your system would win on looks, mine would win on sound quality, because your M140's are that poor to mediocre and not because the EV Sentry III's are super good (Sentry III's have average bass on my scale). If my ebay buying history had gone down another path - there's a certain amount of chaos theory in buying good cheap gear off ebay - my system may well have had Altec Model 19 or 604 or 605 speakers. Or a pair of Ureis. Or maybe some big old JBL's. For a streaming type digital source I'd swap the CD player for a cheapo chinese DAC with a linear power supply or a Topping. Which would up the budget to £670 ish. And to be honest, I have to throw my mind back about 18 years to understand your skepticism. To a time when I had had no activity in the UK hi-fi bake-off scene and when I hadn't tried alternatives to the 1983 UK hi-fi magazine marketing band-wagon. It only takes 1 purchase or 1 bake-off to have the Linn veil lifted from your eyes and ears. In my case that 1 purchase was an EMT 930.
  11. The challenge is not in coming up with a better sounding system than yours. It's in coming up with a better sounding system than yours for the least amount of money spent. And by better sounding, I mean better sounding with any and every recording to every listener that either has integrity or a lack or emotional or commercial agenda. I am very confident I could do it for £600 - in used components bought over the last 12 years. There are others who may well be able to do it for less money. The main weakness in your system are the godawful - relatively speaking in terms of sound quality - Linn 140 speakers.
  12. The opening post contains the following 2 lines: "What do you think? Do any other companies produce better full systems than Linn? If you want to break this down by sources, amplifiers, and speakers, I'm ok with that too." And yes, when buying hi-fi equipment I do like to break it down very much to each individual part of the chain. Because there are so many companies that made great sounding equipment that specialised in one or two parts of the chain. With this specialisation being a key factor in what made their best products so good. As well as every DIY'er, that I know, sourcing their components from different manufacturers. As well as the finest hi-fi being so easy to mix and match. The fewer faults that a component has, the less temptation there will be to introduce an inverse fault elsewhere in the system to balance it out.
  13. In war, to the victors, comes the opportunity to re-write history. It's part of the Linn marketing history to give the impression that Ivor T designed the LP12, after a period of painstaking development. This Linn marketing spin is history re-written. Hamish Roberstson designed the RD11. And he didn't put a lot of R&D into designing it. He just copied midrange turntables from AR and Thorens. Hamish owned an AR turntable. Hamish was an alcoholic. This was a large factor in him fluffing the court case and in Linn getting away with what they got away with. All of which is - to a huge extent - by the by. What matters now in 2021 is should anyone buy Linn on the basis of the sound quality that it offers for the price that you have to pay to get it? If you can find a once in a lifetime bargain deal on - for example an LP12 with all the bells and whistles on for under £2000 then it's worth buying and keeping. Or if you can find a pair of fully working 350a's for under £1000, that's good sound quality for the money. If on the other hand you are buying at full retail price, brand new Linn equipment, then you will be getting disappointingly poor sound quality for the money. Although to be fair, there's almost nothing sold in hi-fi dealers in the UK that represents good sound quality for the money.
  14. You live in a hi-fi paradise. With you being in North America. I envy the fantastic choice of affordable and great sounding kit that you can buy on North American ebay. For years I had an LP12 which I got as far as late Ittok, Troika, Lingo 2, Cirkus, Sound Organisation Turntable Table. Bought an EMT 930 for £1900 and this sounded like a grown up vinyl source whilst the Linn sounded like a pre-pubescent one. I then bought an EMT 950, which also sounded like a grown up vinyl source. For speakers I bought Linn Saras and then Linn Isobariks. Bought a pair of Bozak Symphonies, which once I got to the bottom of the slightly incorrect bass drivers fitted to them (2 x 8 ohms instead of 2 x 16 ohm) gave me midrange and treble that was slightly better than the Briks and bass that was significantly better. To the point that I thought what's all this PRAT that Linn are supposed to be good at? My Bozaks thrash them when it comes to PRAT. Coming to think of it, my EMTS are better at PRAT than my LP12, and they are better at tunedem too. I bought a pair of EV Sentry III speakers and they have midrange and treble that's significantly better than the Briks, with bass that's vaguely on a par. And I bought EV Patricians that have better bass, midrange and treble than the Briks. All of which makes me laugh as in the early 1980's Briks were touted by Popular Hi-fi magazine as the best speakers ever. All this Linn beating gear is stuff that I bought when I saw good deals on ebay. For amplification, I'm very happy with my Coincident Frankenstein prototypes and Korneff Clone SET amplifiers. Mainly for their transparency in the midrange. With their lack of power not being an issue when used with my speakers. There's loads and loads of kit that sounds better than Linn. With a lot of it being relatively affordable. For vinyl sources look for well fettled Garards, Lencos, Thorens. Or statement 1970's to 1980's Japs, eg Pioneer, Sony, Denon, Technics, Yamaha, Trio-Kenwood etc For speakers, big classic yank speakers from Bozak, Altec, EV, JBL, Urei. Or DIY'd speakers from body parts of classic yank speakers. Altec, for example mastered the art of making great woofers in the 1960's with their light cones and concertina surrounds. Hartley made some interesting speaker drivers too. And Klangfilm made some ultra classics. People on the Linn forum are very ignorant when it comes to what's actually been made in the history of hi-fi. Linn have always been predominantly a marketing-lead company and not an engineering-lead one. And as for Linn Exakt, when I've heard it my impression has been that it has improved the mediocre speakers it was demonstrated on, but I'd much rather have speakers with a good set of drivers in the first place than bother with Exakt. IE Exakt is a nice tweak, but it doesn't fix fundamental faults with drivers / speakers and Linn Exakt is stupidly expensive. Plus what does Exakt do that miniDSP doesn't?
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