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Linn Owners

212 tips

LinnJim

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Hello

I just got my hands on some 212s and spent today setting them up.

My first impressions are that they are lacking in bass which is a touch disappointing but they have blown me away with their top end and their imaging.

I have a passive Akurate system with katalyst. My 212s are 396mm from the front wall and I have a bk xls200ff sub to support.

Any tips on how to tweak the bass would be great appreciated. 

Thanks

 

eriku

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Hi LinnJim!
Welcome to the AKURATE speakers family :)  !!

A couple of questions amigo, 

- Do you have them set up as FULL RANGE speakers? 
They are small, but as far as I understand they can reproduced good BASS frequencies. You having them near to the wall could help a lot in the bass department, but I will try to position them a little far so the MIDRANGE could be more "AKURATE".

- Are you using just 1 cable to drive them? or at least bi-wired  bi-amp? just asking---

- Do you have another reference in the same room with the same gear in order to be that lack of BASS? Just asking --- 

I own a pair of astonishing AKURATE 242 MKII, All I gotta say is they change the way they sound with different kind of amplifiers ---- 

MY 2 cents :)

eriku

 

Paulssurround

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Speaker placement is very important for the 212’s,  as is the placement of your Subwoofer.

Even moving the speakers or the subwoofers a cm in any  direction can make an audible difference in some cases.

I can suggest you place the Subwoofer directly behind the front left or front right speaker, as this can often get pleasing results.

.

Space Optimization is very helpful, and adding additional  gain to certain calculated room modes, and to the custom filters can be a game changer.

To add gain:  if the calculated gain is -24, you add gain by moving the gain towards -22, for example.

.

Briain just posted on a thread in the last few days, how he set up his 212’s with his Subwoofer, and he is a bass-head.   



It is important to not add too much gain to a Subwoofer, as you want the bass boast to be subtle, not like the steroid monkeys that drive around with their car subwoofers booming so loud you dentures are rattling.    😛

 
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LinnJim

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Thanks for the quick reply.

I'll answer some of the questions first.

I found that there was absolutely no bass until they were at least 30cm from the front wall. I have just discovered that moving them left and right can have just as big an Impact on bass as forward and back.

I am using a 4200 with k400 to bi amp, with the 3k array and bass woofer driven by different amps.

I have replaced a set of 109s which had loads more bass. But It took me 6 months to set them up and fall in love with them. The 212s instantly sound amazing and I know I'll crack them at some point with far superior results.

I'll have to try your sub trick today Paul, sounds interesting.

I haven't used SO with the 212s yet because of all the speaker moving but I'll certainly be following your guide again when I do. 

 

Tendaberry

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Careful positioning is the first step to getting the 212's to sing, do spend a few hours there. Have you tried putting the bungs in the rear ports and reversing the polarity at speaker end (when used with the sub)? They certainly shouldn't have less bass than the Majik 109's.

 

LinnJim

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You are right Tendaberry. I've been spending time getting the positioning right today. 1cm in any direction makes a huge difference though so these 212s seem much harder to position than my 109s.

With the 109s, if I thought the bass was muddy then I'd move away from the front wall and if lacking, towards it. The 212s are not that simple though and there seems no rhyme or reason to where I should move them to correct a certain trait... if that makes sense.

I feel I am getting somewhere now though.

At one point I was listening to some thin lizzy and if I leant forward I could hear the bass perfectly but if I sat back it almost disappeared completely.

I think a large part of this is down to my room unfortunately. 

 

Geoff_UK

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I know my experience is not directly related to 212's, but when I changed from 140's to akudoriks, I was so sceptical that I would ever get them sounding decent, I almost pulled the plug on them and told my dealer not to bother.  I guess, in the end, I took a leap of faith!

Following the guidance on the forums and of course Paulssurround's excellent SO guides (and a couple of phone calls with him), they sound awesome.  Personally, I can't imagine wanting any more bass and the mids/highs are crystal clear.  It seemed to take months to get it right.

The goosebump test is a very scientific test - good music, high volume - do the hairs stand up on your arms - lol 

 
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Tin

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My 212s are about 31cm from the back wall, which should be close to their ideal location for the ports.

If your sub has a 24dB roll-on, which is default I think; keep the ports open.

If your sub has a 12dB roll-on, you're probably better off bunging the ports and reversing the phase on the speakers.

As far as bass is concerned: you should be able to get 'enough' bass from your setup, although the 212s woofers are not big enough to pressurize larger rooms, so you might not feel kick drums kicking. Adding a second xls200 might do wonders in rooms upto 50m^2.

If you need more lower end bass; I found out yesterday that BK now sells a very cute Double Gem sub. I'm pretty sure a pair of those would fill most rooms nicely.

 

DavidHB

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@Tin Welcome to the forum. If (as I hope) you are the Tin from the old Linn forum, I (and not doubt many others too) am really glad to see you here.

David

 

Tin

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@Tin Welcome to the forum. If (as I hope) you are the Tin from the old Linn forum, I (and not doubt many others too) am really glad to see you here.

David
I'm mentioning 212s and subs, and yet you wonder if I'm the real one? O ye of little faith. 😊

Hi David, nice to see you again, and thank you for your kind welcoming words.

 

DavidHB

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I'm mentioning 212s and subs, and yet you wonder if I'm the real one? O ye of little faith. 😊
Well, you know how it is. What with Br#@#t, Linn closing their forum and discontinuing the KDS, and yours truly actually buying, liking and then upgrading an LP12, a fellow doesn't really know what to think any more.

I'd love to join the discussion on the 212s, as they are speakers that seem to have earned a great deal of owner affection, but I've never had the chance to hear them.

David

 

Tin

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I actually started this 212/bass/sub post to lure you out Tin. 

You fell for the bait :)
I guess I did. 🤔

You actually have a very good setup now; the 3K array is the best Linn has to offer above 350Hz or so, and subs can lift the 212s into 350 territory, without having huge wobbly boxes.

Some will prefer Akubariks, but personally I think the 212s and Akudoriks are better.

 
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Tin

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Well, you know how it is. What with Br#@#t, Linn closing their forum and discontinuing the KDS, and yours truly actually buying, liking and then upgrading an LP12, a fellow doesn't really know what to think any more.

I'd love to join the discussion on the 212s, as they are speakers that seem to have earned a great deal of owner affection, but I've never had the chance to hear them.

David
Is it safe to discuss Br#@#t? 🤔

As for Linns actions; you forgot to mention SO V2. I'm pretty sure I'm not interested in SO V2, so I'm not risking any upgrades that may jeopardise my current configuration. So despite the idea that I like the idea of the Surround module, I'm not risking that path.

And you can still upgrade your Akubariks to 212s 😇😇😇

 

Jail4CEOs2

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Tin, you're advocating for the BK's. Someone here recently slagged them pretty hard. I remember you were "the" sub guy. Are they musical to your ears? Are they maybe tricky to dial in?

 

Tin

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Tin, you're advocating for the BK's. Someone here recently slagged them pretty hard. I remember you were "the" sub guy. Are they musical to your ears? Are they maybe tricky to dial in?
I doubt I'm "the" sub guy, I'm just one of them.

The reason I'm sort of advocating BK's is that they're the offspring of the old REL ST-series, which I know and love. When REL was sold, they switched technology and BK which had been providing parts for the ST's, kinda filled the gap.

I also like the fact that you can buy BK's in both front and floor facing models, and they can match the colours of your speakers. With REL it is all a bit Ford model-T in that respect.

But... I have never heard BK's, as there is no dealer in the Netherlands and my REL Strata subs work great, except for the rather annoying fact that I have heard Komris...

EU regulation allow people to order BK subs through the internet and return them within a 2 week period, which is why I am not afraid to advocate them. You don't like them, you send them back, no harm done. If you do like them, they're a great upgrade, especially compared to buying the premium for full size speakers.

I cannot really comment on the slagging; I haven't been in their room so I don't know what happened there. Could be the sub, could be something else, your guess is as good as mine. A friend of mine owned a REL Strata and also was never quite happy with it in his setup. He does like mine though, in my room, with my speakers, so it could be room/rest of setup related.

I do know that the roll-on behavior plays an important part, so knowing whether your speakers roll-off with 12dB or 24dB is important.

PS As far as I know Paulssurround heard some of the smaller BKs and liked them.

Edit: LinnJim actually owns a BK, so he can give first hand information. 😊

 
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LinnJim

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Jan 11, 2019
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Thanks Tin. You more than most have helped me on my hi-fi journey.

I can tell already that the 212s are a truly incredible speaker and I know I haven't got them sussed yet.

I had a distinctive deterioration when I reversed phase and bunged but I'll try moving them closer to the front wall as you suggested.

Exciting times ahead.

 

Paulssurround

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I doubt I'm "the" sub guy, I'm just one of them.

The reason I'm sort of advocating BK's is that they're the offspring of the old REL ST-series, which I know and love. When REL was sold, they switched technology and BK which had been providing parts for the ST's, kinda filled the gap.

I also like the fact that you can buy BK's in both front and floor facing models, and they can match the colours of your speakers. With REL it is all a bit Ford model-T in that respect.

But... I have never heard BK's, as there is no dealer in the Netherlands and my REL Strata subs work great, except for the rather annoying fact that I have heard Komris...

EU regulation allow people to order BK subs through the internet and return them within a 2 week period, which is why I am not afraid to advocate them. You don't like them, you send them back, no harm done. If you do like them, they're a great upgrade, especially compared to buying the premium for full size speakers.

I cannot really comment on the slagging; I haven't been in their room so I don't know what happened there. Could be the sub, could be something else, your guess is as good as mine. A friend of mine owned a REL Strata and also was never quite happy with it in his setup. He does like mine though, in my room, with my speakers, so it could be room/rest of setup related.

I do know that the roll-on behavior plays an important part, so knowing whether your speakers roll-off with 12dB or 24dB is important.

PS As far as I know Paulssurround heard some of the smaller BKs and liked them.

Edit: LinnJim actually owns a BK, so he can give first hand information. 😊
Awesome surprise this morning.  

The Tin (Subman)is back  🔊

I am glad you sub-scribed to the Wam, as I am sure you will make some sub-stantial contributions, on a whole range of sub-jects  on here.  😊