About time I treated myself to some decent tools

ncdrawl

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my buddy makes custom made protractors for all tables....he has a free printable one and a clear plastic one for 40 bucks.

 

bigjules

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Great replies gents, thankyou. I'm afraid I'm still struggling with the overhang concept though Serge, when you say that it's the distance between the spindle centre and the stylus, how do you actually take the measurement?

Follow up questions too (sorry....) offset angle?? This is something to do with the angle between the centre line of the main arm tube and the centre line of the headshell, yes? So what effect does this have on the setup geometry? And why is the resonant frequency of the arm / cart combination so important? What happens when it's too high or low (in either horizontal or vertical directions)?

Also noted that there doesn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm for some of these other alignment tools, are they just over-expensive tools?

 

Gforce

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overhang visually explained courtesy of the Vinyl engine

tonearmgeometry.jpg


 
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vacdac

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Also noted that there doesn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm for some of these other alignment tools, are they just over-expensive tools?
The Feckert/Clearaudio/Project 'Uber Protractors look totally great & particularly if one is setting up a wide variety of TT's with arms of different effective length/geometry etc, well worth the expense prolly. Indeed then the expense of the tool doesn't really seem expensive at all in relation to the amount of TT's it'll be used with.

However if one doesn't need such a widely compatible tool, it really makes little sense to do other than buy/download a more simple/straightforward tool, that you can be confident in.

I know some people would even baulk at buying an inexpensive, one but in the scheme of things I think I paid summat like £12/£14 & must have used it at least 70 odd times. So all said it seems v cheap to me + it's easy to hand in a lovely little book cloth covered box (for my ISOkinetic tonearm cable) where I keep all my TT setup necessaries other than scales......right where they're generally needed underneath the 'Spider' plinth of my Gyro s.e. :^

 

SergeAuckland

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Great replies gents, thankyou. I'm afraid I'm still struggling with the overhang concept though Serge, when you say that it's the distance between the spindle centre and the stylus, how do you actually take the measurement?Follow up questions too (sorry....) offset angle?? This is something to do with the angle between the centre line of the main arm tube and the centre line of the headshell, yes? So what effect does this have on the setup geometry? And why is the resonant frequency of the arm / cart combination so important? What happens when it's too high or low (in either horizontal or vertical directions)?

Also noted that there doesn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm for some of these other alignment tools, are they just over-expensive tools?
If the resonant frequency is too low, it will be excited by record warps and footfall and can (will?) throw the stylus out of the groove with the consequent possibility of damage to the LP and the cartridge. If the resonant frequency is too high, it will be excited by recorded low frequencies on the LP, and will result in heavy, bloated bass. Of course some people, especially those with small bookshelf 'speakers might actually like that, but it also increases distortion and makes mistracking far more likely. Again, there are some who might actually like that effect.

As to tools, there's nothing wrong with these tools, but they don't do anything that can't be done with a conventional two-spot protractor, some stylus scales, a mirror and some patience.

S.

 
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Humpty was pushed

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Is it compulsory to wear a big woolly jumper with long sleeves when changing a cart?

Just sayin'

 

vacdac

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Errrrrm who'd be t' best person to ask? doncherknow. :whistle: ;-) :D :D AFAICR we have one or two authorities on such matters amongst our ranks. :^

Is it compulsory to wear a big woolly jumper with long sleeves when changing a cart?Just sayin'
 

Ratcatcher

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[*]What if the cantilever isn't absolutely parallel with the cartridge body? Is it fucked? (Mine is fine as far as I can tell, but I just wondered if it was an indication that the cartridge suspension might be past it's best)
I was equally in the dark about this point a couple of years ago. I had some problems setting up a brand new cartridge on an SME IV (using the SME protractor) and ended up with more bias than it really should have needed. When i borrowed a Phantom II arm to demo, i transferred the cartridge and used the excellent setup tools supplied with the arm. Well, with those tools, it was fairly obvious that something wasnt quite right with the cartridge so after arguing with the distributor that i wasnt a heavy handed gorilla, it was sent back to Japan to have its suspension rebuilt. I cant remember exactly the whys or wheres of the tools but i think it was something to do with the detachable armwand. Maybe someone can post some photos of these tools so you can get an idea of how they work?

As regards the other bits, i'd agree with Serge on this one. In a fit spending, i bought the Dr feickhert protrator, used it once and its sat in the box ever since. Unless youre constantly setting up decks and arms, they're really not worth it.

 

Lord Nitrogen

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In a fit spending, i bought the Dr feickhert protrator, used it once and its sat in the box ever since. Unless youre constantly setting up decks and arms, they're really not worth it.
Same here - bought the bloody thing new and found that the existing cartridge alignment (based on free protractors) was spot-on. So a brief smile of satisfaction and then a more sustained pang of regret for the armful of S/H vinyl I could have bought instead.

Anti-skate is another matter, I can't make sense of it with my arm/table. Current setup behaves very poorly on HiFi News test LP. I decided to dial it in midway and stop worrying about it, so far so good.

 

vacdac

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Hi David,

Interesting feedback from a Feckert?? User/Owner:)

Just a thought re your PU7, is at a Syrinx or a J7....could there be any difference between the variants....Johnnie 7 would be the man to ask or users of both on the forum I'd think.

Know what you mean its finding the sweet spot (range) for any particular arm. On my current one a setting of 2/3rds tracking weight works a treat, but all the carts I have are also very similar mass, other than t' Rondo which is a couple of g's heavier..but still far from being a high mass cart. On my Technoarm bang on half tracking weight for t' bias always worked best....but my understanding is that Regas & those based on their 300/250 variants, that dialling in the setting can be none too accurate & there's also a deal more batch variation for the bias setting on these arms too.....the only thing you can really do with these arms is experiment until you find the right spot it seems.

Same here - bought the bloody thing new and found that the existing cartridge alignment (based on free protractors) was spot-on. So a brief smile of satisfaction and then a more sustained pang of regret for the armful of S/H vinyl I could have bought instead.Anti-skate is another matter, I can't make sense of it with my arm/table. Current setup behaves very poorly on HiFi News test LP. I decided to dial it in midway and stop worrying about it, so far so good.
 

Lord Nitrogen

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Hi David,Interesting feedback from a Feckert?? User/Owner:). Just a thought re your PU7, is at a Syrinx or a J7....could there be any difference between the variants....Johnnie 7 would be the man to ask or users of both on the forum I'd think.
It is a j7 masterpiece, goldplated and I intend to be buried cradling it in my arms like a Pharoah with a Scepter.

I have consulted j7 himself over the bias setting and for example tried a replacement weight. Still feels unconvincing during set up but there again the DL-103 tracks really well apparently regardless of the bias settings.

 

vacdac

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Lucky Man David:love: :22: .......sounds v much as its just the 'feel' of setting t' bias during setting up feels a little sloppy & is perhaps a little at odds to the quality feel of the arm in actual use....despite the fact you now seem to have it all set up right.

I'd still hazard a guess setting t' bias on your arm is actually far less sloppy/imprecise than many quality arms. :?

 

surayne

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I found this custom arc protractor really useful - it will generate one for any arm using the alignment of your choice (it's the third link from the top of the page). You just need to make sure you print it out at 100% without scaling. Really easy to use and costs nothing.

 

bigjules

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Thanks everyone, some really useful info here. Bias setting is a bit of a dark art by the sound of it, I've previously done mine by ear, and it seems as though that's a fairly common way to do it. It's a bastard-fiddly job to do on the WB thanks to the stupid grooves they've machined into the bias post that sticks out of the arm pivot housing. Combine that with the tiniest loop in the nylon thread, and my fat fingers, and you have a recipe for frustration. Why they couldn't just leave it plain I don't know, would have been so much easier!

 

misterpete

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I found this custom arc protractor really useful - it will generate one for any arm using the alignment of your choice (it's the third link from the top of the page). You just need to make sure you print it out at 100% without scaling. Really easy to use and costs nothing.
Clicked this link and got a really nasty Trojan virus, spent the best part of an hour getting rid of it. be warned

 

ncdrawl

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kevin willis jr can make a protractor for any table, tailored to the table specs, with whatever arcs you want on it (comes with stevenson and baerwald and one other as standard)

his email is kwillisjr@gmail.com

the printable one is free, the plastic one that lasts a lifetime is 45 USD I believe.

well worth it.

 

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