Any dac's that can do tone like vinyl

[garn63]

Is that the one from a recent Darko comparison?

I don't know Pedro ?
It's been around for yrs & I was surprised/pleased with it. Just a very nice listening experience. Bit of flavour that I happen to like.

 

[Metatron]

Now turntables are silly money and the technology used in the high end DAC's is trickling down to the lower end models and the higher end are still getting better. I'm a big vinyl fan but can see a day when I just say you know what I'll just go digital.

Costs are a relevant topic. High quality streaming cost is less than a CD used to be, and you have almost unlimited music access. OTOH, vinyl has higher than old CD costs for physical vinyl, you have to buy anything you want to spin, plus physical storage taking space and having associated costs.

The total cost of ownership with vinyl running costs is now far higher. You can buy darn good streaming speakers, set them up in a room, do some DSP, subscribe to a streaming service and call it done.

Vinyl needs cleaning and degrades. Record sleeves tear and need replacing. Stylii require cleaning. Spindles need bearing oil,. Decks need levelling, adjusting weights and tracking alignment. Stylii or carts need replacement, etc. So much to fret over with vinyl.

For what you get going digital in terms of less maintenance and more listening, you'd think digital was close enough now that people would use vinyl less. But instead there's a resurgence. Younger folk who poo-pooed it as a medium and then heard it and realized it sounds better and like the idea of having music that doesn't eat their mobile data.

I know vinyl has a lot of ongoing costs and maintenance, but digital software and compatibility issues can also be a PITA, as is lack of internet meaning no music. But it is cost effective and less time consuming to run, enabling more listening time.

 

[rabski]

Vinyl needs cleaning and degrades. Record sleeves tear and need replacing. Stylii require cleaning. Spindles need bearing oil,. Decks need levelling, adjusting weights and tracking alignment. Stylii or carts need replacement, etc. So much to fret over with vinyl.

Hmmm. Vinyl only degrades if excessively played or poorly treated. Despite the wonders of digital, it is amusing that the Library of Congress considers vinyl among the best media for long-term storage, as it is pretty much immune to damage and degradation from anything other than excessive heat.

Cartridges and stylii need replacing over time. But then CDs don't last for ever, nor do CD mechanisms. Decks don't really need setting up other than if something changes, apart from maybe an occasional tweak.

Streaming? Irrelevant really, as you never actually own anything. You're paying (or not) to borrow music.

 

[Metatron]

Streaming? Irrelevant really, as you never actually own anything. You're paying (or not) to borrow music.

I'd agree it's licensed playback. But in the streaming approach you could listen non-stop to different (new unheard) tracks and or albums. If we work out how many tracks that would be, and how many vinyl records that would fill, then calculate the cost to purchase as much vinyl, there would be a massive cost disparity, with streaming being a fraction of vinyl.

 

[rabski]

I'd agree it's licensed playback. But in the streaming approach you could listen non-stop to different (new unheard) tracks and or albums. If we work out how many tracks that would be, and how many vinyl records that would fill, then calculate the cost to purchase as much vinyl, there would be a massive cost disparity, with streaming being a fraction of vinyl.

I don't disagree, but I use all three main media.

Vinyl and CD for 'serious' listening. Streaming for casual listening and discovery. If I find something on streaming that I really enjoy (and still enjoy after listening to it a few times) then I'll buy the vinyl or CD.

 

[Von Krolock]

Costs are a relevant topic. High quality streaming cost is less than a CD used to be, and you have almost unlimited music access. OTOH, vinyl has higher than old CD costs for physical vinyl, you have to buy anything you want to spin, plus physical storage taking space and having associated costs.

The total cost of ownership with vinyl running costs is now far higher. You can buy darn good streaming speakers, set them up in a room, do some DSP, subscribe to a streaming service and call it done.

Vinyl needs cleaning and degrades. Record sleeves tear and need replacing. Stylii require cleaning. Spindles need bearing oil,. Decks need levelling, adjusting weights and tracking alignment. Stylii or carts need replacement, etc. So much to fret over with vinyl.

For what you get going digital in terms of less maintenance and more listening, you'd think digital was close enough now that people would use vinyl less. But instead there's a resurgence. Younger folk who poo-pooed it as a medium and then heard it and realized it sounds better and like the idea of having music that doesn't eat their mobile data.

I know vinyl has a lot of ongoing costs and maintenance, but digital software and compatibility issues can also be a PITA, as is lack of internet meaning no music. But it is cost effective and less time consuming to run, enabling more listening time.

Costs are a relevant topic. High quality streaming cost is less than a CD used to be, and you have almost unlimited music access. OTOH, vinyl has higher than old CD costs for physical vinyl, you have to buy anything you want to spin, plus physical storage taking space and having associated costs.

The total cost of ownership with vinyl running costs is now far higher. You can buy darn good streaming speakers, set them up in a room, do some DSP, subscribe to a streaming service and call it done.

Vinyl needs cleaning and degrades. Record sleeves tear and need replacing. Stylii require cleaning. Spindles need bearing oil,. Decks need levelling, adjusting weights and tracking alignment. Stylii or carts need replacement, etc. So much to fret over with vinyl.

For what you get going digital in terms of less maintenance and more listening, you'd think digital was close enough now that people would use vinyl less. But instead there's a resurgence. Younger folk who poo-pooed it as a medium and then heard it and realized it sounds better and like the idea of having music that doesn't eat their mobile data.

I know vinyl has a lot of ongoing costs and maintenance, but digital software and compatibility issues can also be a PITA, as is lack of internet meaning no music. But it is cost effective and less time consuming to run, enabling more listening time.

It always goes back to money.
A young lady at work this week was asking - rhetorically with that wry smile that you lose when you get older - why people buy and play records now when there is streaming.
The answers and passion are all known - but what can you say?

 

[savvypaul]

I don't disagree, but I use all three main media.

Vinyl and CD for 'serious' listening. Streaming for causal listening and discovery. If I find something on streaming that I really enjoy (and still enjoy after listening to it a few times) then I'll buy the vinyl or CD.

I do love streaming; it seems like the ultimate convenience. Discovering lots of stuff from before (and after) my 'time'. I have a similar strategy - try lots, buy what you really want (though, I have become a bit cheesed off with the poor QC of much new vinyl). I'm also happy to buy a download to make sure that I can 'keep' the version that I want - sometimes they disappear from the streaming services.

 

[Pedro2]

I don't know Pedro ?
It's been around for yrs & I was surprised/pleased with it. Just a very nice listening experience. Bit of flavour that I happen to like.

https://darko.audio/2022/12/dac-off-schiit-vs-benchmark-vs-denafrips/

 

[Psilonaught]

Vinyl and CD for 'serious' listening. Streaming for casual listening and discovery. If I find something on streaming that I really enjoy (and still enjoy after listening to it a few times) then I'll buy the vinyl or CD.

This is genuinely baffling to me. I just cannot see the point of owning physical media. I guess I'm very heavily invested in streaming so it isn't a compromise for me.

 

[karlsushi]

Interesting seeing how many people think the decision is physical media ownership (cd/vinyl) vs streaming.

You can still own a music catalogue on a hard drive or cloud storage and get to play music when your WiFi is down. I still buy my favourite albums for safe keeping, just like I used to on vinyl.

Plus you can take your whole music collection with you wherever you go. Bake-off, Wam Show, party, the train, wherever.

And if you have a cloud back-up, you haven't lost your collection if your house burns down either.

Granted, the latest downloads aren't much cheaper than a CD, but they're still much cheaper than vinyl.

And you can play them as often as you like and they still play like new!

 

[pmcuk]

Interesting seeing how many people think the decision is physical media ownership (cd/vinyl) vs streaming.

I have my core music on hundreds of CDs transferred to a large external hard disc so I don't actually use any physical media on a daily basis.

While YouTube is free I'm not going to pay for any kind of streaming. Just about everything I want is on YouTube and I'm happy with the quality I get through my system, since I've put 12 years work into building my amplifiers and this has paid off well.

The days of paying for music are over until or unless YT starts charging for use.

 

[eddie-baby]

It always goes back to money.
A young lady at work this week was asking - rhetorically with that wry smile that you lose when you get older - why people buy and play records now when there is streaming.
The answers and passion are all known - but what can you say?

My eldest daughter has been espressing interest in a TT for sometime now to listen to her favorites. I did even manage to find a decent one and I thought I'd give the TT to her for Christmas, it's still in the box here. She already has student Spotify which she pays for monthly out of the wages of her part time job, as well as many other expenses like running a small car.

After some consideration as much as I love vinyl I can't bring myself for to have the turntable. I was going to get her a few records to start a collection, but the new material that's out now your Harry Styles et al, are often selling for 25 or 30 quid as a norm! And given most of the recordings process is digital in 2022 anyway, what they have going on here is a complete criminal racket! She loves music but I'm also trying to protect her from being completely ripped off in life. If she has a turntable she'd want to buy records. I just can't ethnically see the logic of encouraging it.

 

[TheFlash]

After hearing some vinyl this past summer on a good friend's system, the tone of the instruments is what stood out. I really should have compared the LP to a CD, but go so lost in listening I forgot.

I'm chasing the same thing. I've had a modded Jolida/black ice MK2 with some old NOS tubes from Czech and then some new JJ gold pins. Didn't do much for me. I moved it on after six months.

I also had a week with the Lampizator Amber 3. Again, not much at all.

It makes me wonder how much of my issue is the Node 2 as a streamer/dac. Maybe the key is to go good streamer and then good USB DAC. It was that thread @Lurch put out about the reclocking that go me thinking along these lines as a number of folks wrote about good DACs not needing reclockers.

Not at all sure about the last bit. I see my reclocker as correcting the clocking of the Node signal out rather than doing anything my dCS Puccini can’t do… I plan to stick with my Node 2i for the foreseeable though as you know it’s pretty well maxed out with a Sean Jacobs DC3+ psu and the Mutec reclocker. I don’t feel like it’s holding my system back…

Maybe one day I’ll adventure down the streamer rabbit hole but I’d need to understand a little more about how a digital in digital out device can change the sound that the fed DAC/amp/speakers produce.
The focus of the OP on the DAC in the first instance makes huge sense to me.

 

[lazycat]

This is genuinely baffling to me. I just cannot see the point of owning physical media.

I suppose the majority of us have been buying LP/CD since we were adolescents and have quite a collection of the stuff.

I don't buy many LPs now, they are too expensive. But I have bought many hundreds of LPs/CDs from charity shops. These purchases have introduced me to a lot of new music, which is what it's all about.

And it's fun sorting thru stuff - well it is for me, I don't want to be stuck at a screen as my only source of music.

 

[leroyd]

This is genuinely baffling to me. I just cannot see the point of owning physical media. I guess I'm very heavily invested in streaming so it isn't a compromise for me.

As I have aged, I realise that for me, the value of ownership of anything diminishes as I age, whilst the importance of the less tangeable has become invaluable.
In terms of HIFI, all my CD's have been moved on, having been ripped onto Zen server, and I love streaming.

 

[Psilonaught]

I will say that I would be completely gutted if I somehow lost my Qobuz favourites list, which I've carefully built up over the years.

That's what I value I suppose.

I have a vast collection of CDs in the cellar. I have zero desire to listen to any of it!

 

[peter the butcher]

A friend got an Aqua la Scala to go with his Townshend Reference pre and Allnic power amp. He is very particular as well

 

[DomT]

I have my core music on hundreds of CDs transferred to a large external hard disc so I don't actually use any physical media on a daily basis.

While YouTube is free I'm not going to pay for any kind of streaming. Just about everything I want is on YouTube and I'm happy with the quality I get through my system, since I've put 12 years work into building my amplifiers and this has paid off well.

The days of paying for music are over until or unless YT starts charging for use.

TouTube ‘charges’ you by interrupting your musical experience with adverts. But their algorithm is excellent.

 

[DomT]

Not at all sure about the last bit. I see my reclocker as correcting the clocking of the Node signal out rather than doing anything my dCS Puccini can’t do… I plan to stick with my Node 2i for the foreseeable though as you know it’s pretty well maxed out with a Sean Jacobs DC3+ psu and the Mutec reclocker. I don’t feel like it’s holding my system back…

Maybe one day I’ll adventure down the streamer rabbit hole but I’d need to understand a little more about how a digital in digital out device can change the sound that the fed DAC/amp/speakers produce.
The focus of the OP on the DAC in the first instance makes huge sense to me.

@Lurch recently moved from Node plus clocker to Innuos with no clocker. It’s worth keeping an open mind and exploring.

 

[StingRay]

https://darko.audio/2022/12/dac-off-schiit-vs-benchmark-vs-denafrips/

That is a different DAC.

Here is the review: https://darko.audio/2016/01/zesty-and-sweet-the-stunning-schiit-gungnir-multibit-dac/