ATC

superelmar

Newbie
Wammer
Jun 14, 2022
40
15
13
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
ok! so SCM 50 ASLT arriving home in the next few days! still undecided bout preamp and DAC!

Reduced to:

-SCA2 (how does it compares with newer CA2 and CDA2?) plus Weiss DAC or start with CXN V2.

-McIntosh C53, C2700, C8 (yeah many different options, maybe actives would benefit of some tubes?) Streamer: Lumin U2 mini. Love the mc aesthetics.

-SPL Director MKII plus SPL Phonos (streamer would be Lumin U1 mini). Lovely little pieces.

-Luxman CL-38uc (love this one).

Thanks a lot!!!!

PS: Bought a pair of Cardas Gold XLR for speakers.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TheFlash

TheFlash

Also available in pink
Wammer
Jun 22, 2013
12,479
8,343
208
Rural Leics [system 1] & Kendal [systems 2 & 3]
AKA
Nigel
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
ok! so SCM 50 ASLT arriving home in the next few days! still undecided bout preamp and DAC!

Reduced to:

-SCA2 (how does it compares with newer CA2 and CDA2?) plus Weiss DAC or start with CXN V2.

-McIntosh C53, C2700, C8 (yeah many different options, maybe actives would benefit of some tubes?) Streamer: Lumin U2 mini. Love the mc aesthetics.

-SPL Director MKII plus SPL Phonos (streamer would be Lumin U1 mini). Lovely little pieces.

-Luxman CL-38uc (love this one).

Thanks a lot!!!!

PS: Bought a pair of Cardas Gold XLR for speakers.
If you want to hear the ‘50s at their very best, see if you can get your hands on an MFA Baby Ref. It’s a completely transparent passive pre which makes most other passives sound veiled. And the music you will hear is anything but passive! Punchy, vibrant, whatever it has at source you will hear. No-one can really describe this for you, and you should forget any preconceptions or prejudices about passive vs active pre or tube vs s/s pre until you’ve wrapped your ears around one of these.
IMHO as ever…
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fourlegs

Fourlegs

WAVE Digital Cables
Wammer
May 5, 2014
6,370
4,011
183
Melton Mowbray
www.wavehighfidelity.com
AKA
Nick
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
If you want to hear the ‘50s at their very best, see if you can get your hands on an MFA Baby Ref. It’s a completely transparent passive pre which makes most other passives sound veiled. And the music you will hear is anything but passive! Punchy, vibrant, whatever it has at source you will hear. No-one can really describe this for you, and you should forget any preconceptions or prejudices about passive vs active pre or tube vs s/s pre until you’ve wrapped your ears around one of these.
IMHO as ever…
@superelmar +1 for what TheFlash says. The other alternative is to use a DAC direct to the ATC actives so long as the DAC has a good volume control. I use my Dave direct to my ATC 150 actives and to my ears the Dave direct is the only thing that beats the MFA Baby Ref (I had a MFA Baby Ref V2). For what it is worth, I wasn’t all that impressed by the ATC SCA2 when I heard one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheFlash

TheFlash

Also available in pink
Wammer
Jun 22, 2013
12,479
8,343
208
Rural Leics [system 1] & Kendal [systems 2 & 3]
AKA
Nigel
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
thanks guys!

Forgot to mention, I listen to vinyls 80% of time!

So SCA2 not good enough?
I had one and moved it on. Strong in the bass.
My point about the MFA Baby Ref is that it’s only when you’ve heard one that you realise how sub-optimal so many active pre’s are. I briefly had an MFA Classic which is pricey and very good but the Baby Ref renders all generalisations about passives, actives, s/state and tubes almost meaningless. Some folk for example will say “I had a passive once and it didn’t have any life”, but they clearly aren’t talking about a Baby Ref which, contrary to the word “passive”, kicks ass.
 

popol_vuh

Wammer
Wammer
Nov 24, 2007
568
325
93
Croatia
AKA
Zvonimir
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
When it comes to preamps, I went for EAR 868PL. An audiophile colleague of mine tried quite a few preamps into active SCM20 and his findings were at the time that EAR 864 was a great combo with them. I liked the sound of that preamp with my passive SCM19 very much and later went for 868PL (vinyl is my primary source), still with my passive SCM19. I intend to use that preamp with SCM40A/50A as my endgame speaker which I'll hopefully acquire soon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheFlash

DomT

Food and coffee and rock n roll
Wammer Plus
Jul 23, 2019
10,327
9,595
198
Village near Nottingham.
AKA
Dom
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I’d be tempted by an Audio Research preamp if I mainly listened to records.
I agree with Nopiano. I use Audio Research in both of my systems. In one I have an integrated with built in passive preamp section DSI200 and in the other I have an SP17 valve active preamp. I bought the SP17 because it has an excellent phonostage. But my Trilogy 907 phono stage does a lot of things that the SP17 doesn’t although the SP17 stage has more punch. As always it’s about preference. Some like what no preamp can do and some prefer a passive or active preamp and of course there are many flavours of each.

Would be good to know what you have tried so far and any comments.
 

Musicraft

Wammer
HiFi Trade
Jun 18, 2008
8,368
439
128
Derby
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
thanks guys
So SCA2 not good enough?
Forgot to mention, I listen to vinyls 80% of time!

EMM Labs/Meitner Audio's MA3 DAC/Streamer/Pre Amp is also worth bearing in mind. Like I've as said before -

In some cases it will be easier said then done however if you're system is based on digital audio, using an all in one solution and want the best performance from ATC active monitors (and this should also be the case with numerous power amplifiers) SCM19A's, SCM40A's, SCM100ASL's, etc, then ATC active monitors need to be directly fed from an Ed Meitner - EMM Labs/Meitner Audio DAC/Pre with their V Control which "maintains the input signal without re-quantization allowing for complete transparency at any volume setting, wide attenuation range, and no loss of audio resolution." Hence why an ever growing number of our clients are using MA3’s with their ATC active monitors.

Simple.

Ed Meitner aka Mr DSD knows a thing or two and then some about digital audio particularly as he helped Sony/Philips develop DSD technology. ATC monitors were also used in the development of DSD technology.

Ed_2.jpg


In this MA3 review the reviewer also compares the MA3's direct output against a dedicated and more expensive Audio Research REF 6SE analogue pre amp. The differences are very subtle.

https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/1060-meitner-audio-ma3-dac-preamplifier
The SCA2 takes no prisoners. Only the very best quality of source components are capable of realising and unlocking the SCA2's massive performance potential. In this respect the state of the art MA3 easily meets the requirement. Simply put the MA3 (particularly with something implemented that I picked up from a well known engineer who got indirectly involved with Sony's engineers during the development of DSD) paired with the SCA2 and ATC active monitors is a devastating combination. You simply get the best of both world's :)

Btw, the SCA2's optional phono module the SPH2 is as capable as the SCA2's line level stages.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Nopiano

stevebrown

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 22, 2016
424
282
68
Regarding your bed comment. You say that as though it’s a bad thing. It isn’t. If the passive ATCs were bad ATC wouldn’t make and sell the passive versions. And they do sell them which is why they are still producing them. Maybe one day on a UK visit I might get to hear a side by side demo.
i did listen side by side, no contest Actives won by a country mile, but we all have reasons to like what we like
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheFlash

stevebrown

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 22, 2016
424
282
68
regarding preamps, i give another tick for mfa baby ref v2, excellent with atc actives.
i finally settled on a w4s stp-se stage 2 which starts passive and only becomes active as a pre at high levels, interesting bit of kit.
Soundwise i found little to choose between them and finally kept the w4s only because of the cost difference.
I have never heard a better pre than either of these in anything like their price range.
Both fully balanced as are the atc amps and both delivered true hi-fi, full range, amazingly detailed , highly textured results into my active scm50s.
i use my system for both music and movies which influenced my final choice, if it was only music especially including vinyl i might have gone with an ear preamp i tested, but i gave up on vinyl round about the same time i was making the decision and tubes/tv are not a marriage made in heaven.
 
Last edited:
  • Upvote
Reactions: TheFlash

Patu

Wammer
Wammer
Dec 6, 2019
289
398
83
Finland
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Not sure why the MFA Baby Reference V2 costs so much being a passive preamp. If I was after a passive preamp, I would look no further than Khozmo. Prices are well under £1k with upgraded resistors, remote control and small amount of inputs/outputs.

Here's a review of one configuration: https://www.tannoyista.com/2021/11/the-khozmo-shunt-relay-passive.html

I was close to ordering one some time ago but decided to try passive attenuators first. Then I kind of forgot the whole passive preamp testing (I use Linn ADSM/3 directly to SCM50ASL). The price isn't bad though and I'm sure it would be easy to move forward if not happy. I'm not sure, they might even have some kind of trial period.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: TheFlash

stevebrown

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 22, 2016
424
282
68
Not sure why the MFA Baby Reference V2 costs so much being a passive preamp. If I was after a passive preamp, I would look no further than Khozmo. Prices are well under £1k with upgraded resistors, remote control and small amount of inputs/outputs.

Here's a review of one configuration: https://www.tannoyista.com/2021/11/the-khozmo-shunt-relay-passive.html

I was close to ordering one some time ago but decided to try passive attenuators first. Then I kind of forgot the whole passive preamp testing (I use Linn ADSM/3 directly to SCM50ASL). The price isn't bad though and I'm sure it would be easy to move forward if not happy. I'm not sure, they might even have some kind of trial period.
i think what you are really saying is that almost anything sounds good with ATC actives, from that point on we persuade ourselves that spending 1k, 5k, 10k, 50k gives us that tiny improvement that we are dreaming of and that is what
the entire HI-FI industry relies on.
Life as we know it Jim
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TheFlash

stevebrown

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 22, 2016
424
282
68
So this is my world , a few years ago i went to a Stones concert , full blast, seat near the front and it sounded like 5000 watt amps blasted through B and W 8 series speakers, loved it, gave me a ringing in my ears and a headache.
Then i went to Ronnie Scotts, poor seat off to one side lisa stanfield live , drank lots, ate lots, a warm and fuzzy evening, aka tube amps and tannoy, loved it.
A few weeks ago i was in Spain, some guy playing the guitar, a woman dancing flamenco in the street, so very real it made your heart pound., loved it
This is how i think of it , when i play ATC actives with a passive preamp i hear the man on the street singing and playing the guitar and the beautiful woman clacking her heels. just like its live, I also hear Ronnie Scotts but in a better seat and the Stones several rows back where you can hear every word and note.
For me the combination works, does it work better with a 3k or 5k passive over a 1k, who knows nobody is likely to listen to all of them.
 

DomT

Food and coffee and rock n roll
Wammer Plus
Jul 23, 2019
10,327
9,595
198
Village near Nottingham.
AKA
Dom
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
i think what you are really saying is that almost anything sounds good with ATC actives, from that point on we persuade ourselves that spending 1k, 5k, 10k, 50k gives us that tiny improvement that we are dreaming of and that is what
the entire HI-FI industry relies on.
Life as we know it Jim
I found my ATCs to be unforgiving of a poor source. Ok mine were passive but it should be the same difference. With the right amp and source plugged in though they are lovely. Having had the ATCs again here against my Neats with ribbon tweeters the ATCs are a little bit rolled off by comparison as they are against Proacs (as measurements show). The response curve is great for me but I wouldn’t want to pair ATCs with an amp that was also rolled off.
 

TheFlash

Also available in pink
Wammer
Jun 22, 2013
12,479
8,343
208
Rural Leics [system 1] & Kendal [systems 2 & 3]
AKA
Nigel
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Not sure why the MFA Baby Reference V2 costs so much being a passive preamp. If I was after a passive preamp, I would look no further than Khozmo. Prices are well under £1k with upgraded resistors, remote control and small amount of inputs/outputs.

Here's a review of one configuration: https://www.tannoyista.com/2021/11/the-khozmo-shunt-relay-passive.html

I was close to ordering one some time ago but decided to try passive attenuators first. Then I kind of forgot the whole passive preamp testing (I use Linn ADSM/3 directly to SCM50ASL). The price isn't bad though and I'm sure it would be easy to move forward if not happy. I'm not sure, they might even have some kind of trial period.
You obviously haven't heard one! Forget cost of components or whatever, the Baby Refs (v1 or v2) have to be heard to be believed. Stunning. Talk to @Lurch
 
  • Like
Reactions: Patu

simon g

Senior Wammer
Wammer Plus
Sep 11, 2006
2,913
2,257
193
Lincolnshire Coast
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Not sure why the MFA Baby Reference V2 costs so much being a passive preamp. If I was after a passive preamp, I would look no further than Khozmo. Prices are well under £1k with upgraded resistors, remote control and small amount of inputs/outputs.

Here's a review of one configuration: https://www.tannoyista.com/2021/11/the-khozmo-shunt-relay-passive.html

I was close to ordering one some time ago but decided to try passive attenuators first. Then I kind of forgot the whole passive preamp testing (I use Linn ADSM/3 directly to SCM50ASL). The price isn't bad though and I'm sure it would be easy to move forward if not happy. I'm not sure, they might even have some kind of trial period.

The transformers are costly to manufacture, as are other components in the MFA. Transistors, caps, resistors are far less costly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheFlash

Patu

Wammer
Wammer
Dec 6, 2019
289
398
83
Finland
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
You obviously haven't heard one! Forget cost of components or whatever, the Baby Refs (v1 or v2) have to be heard to be believed. Stunning. Talk to @Lurch
And I most probably never will. To me passive preamp shouldn't sound like anything at all. It should just be a "wire with gain" solution to control volume and possibly inputs. If this can be achieved with Khozmo or other similar products then I see no point in paying 6k for another product. If one wants to color the sound with preamp then that's another story.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
113,444
Messages
2,451,263
Members
70,783
Latest member
reg66

Latest Articles

Wammers Online