best turntable for bass and sub-bass?

[gavman]

hallo peeps

looking to get back into vinyl after a decade out. as my beloved cranfied rock is no longer serviceable that means a new deck.

i was perfectly happy with the sound of the rock- i've still never heard better bass. however i haven't heard any new decks for over a decade, so it may have been surpassed now. the other facets i loved were the strong dynamics, superb soundstage and did i mention the bass?

just ridiculously solid, tuneful articulate and extended.

my first love is bass-driven dance music, from reggae to drum and bass to dubstep via house, ambient and trance.

i also enjoy a wide variety of other (occasionally acoustic) material (alt-j, james blake, salif keita, john martyn to name a few).

i have yet to hear a moving coil cartridge that does dance music well- sub bass doesn't seem a consideration for high-end cartridge manufacturers. the much vaunted dynavector 17d2 was a massive disapointment on my oxford acoustics crystallette/silver wired sme v combo.

on my rock i loved the way excaliber arm and reson rica mm cartridge resolved bass, dynamics and sounded 'live'

as i can't seem to fill out my profile yet, my current system comprises:

yba cd lecteur 1 (3 box)

audio research sp14 pre-amp (about to be upgraded to yba passion or vtl)

yba passion 1000 monos

focal stella utopia emIII

telerium interconnect

i'm prepared to consider second hand. max budget between 5 and 10k including arm and cartridge

many thanks for your thoughts

gavman

 

[pure sound]

What is the matter with the Rock that can't be repaired?

 

[Tel]

Buy another Rock if you loved the first one, you will get a lot of change!

The Reson Reca is a cracking cartridge, you have to go quite a way up the MC ladder to better it.

I sold mine to a fellow wammer, every time I hear it in his system I wonder why I did!

If you want to spend your cash there is a second hand Raven in the dealer classifieds that might well be worth a demo

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?89265-FS-TW-Acustic-RAVEN-AC-Turntable

 

[Beobloke]

Firstly, as said, I'd be very surprised if the Rock can't be repaired. After all, it's not exactly a vintage DD filled with unobtainable control ICs!

Secondly, turntable with gut-wrenching bass? That'll be a Garrard 301 or 401 you'll be needing.

 

[pure sound]

It doesn't seem that there'd be much that couldn't be put right (unless you've dropped it out of a first floor window!)

Some interesting info & pics here. I'll bet Steve could resurrect it.

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?93001-Elite-Cranfield-Phonogram-quot-The-Rock-quot&highlight=Cranfield

 

[gavman]

my thanks to all of you.

interesting that you still rate the rock, i had thought that some of the newer, bigger stuff might blow it into the weeds.

i bought my rock s/h from the emporium in diss. they thoughtfully arranged for john bugee, the original designer, to service it.

unfortunately it came back from him sans bellows. i never did get a satisfactory explanation as to why. so my glowing praise was based on an example with no feet, sat on shock absorbing packing.

my example had the original bearing that john bugee built the deck to showcase. he then sold this design of bearing to the lockheed corporation, at which point it was classified as a state secret and he was prevented from retailing it. he then withdrew from the hifi industry in frustration, and max townshend took over the design.

i used it for many years and it remains the best deck i've ever heard...but i've never heard anything truly 'high end'

(and i'm at least ten years out of date so haven't heard the offerings from sme, vpi or brinkmann...or even michell's orbe. additionally i was advised that sota know a thing or two about the low frequencies ).

gradually the pitch began to go off, it felt like the motor was overheating and i struggled with belts deteriorating. it fell into disuse, went into storage, gathered dust. then somone moved it without picking it up from beneath the base and basically pulled it apart. then the headshell detached from the arm.

when i took delivery of the focals last year i sent the deck back with alain abensur of choice hifi to drop it off at max townshend's for repair. once alain had a look at it he didn't think it was worth the trouble. i don't think he was pulling a fast one, it did look knackered.

but in the light of what you guys have had to say, i'm e-mailing him to ask where it is

 

[gavman]

Firstly, as said, I'd be very surprised if the Rock can't be repaired. After all, it's not exactly a vintage DD filled with unobtainable control ICs!Secondly, turntable with gut-wrenching bass? That'll be a Garrard 301 or 401 you'll be needing.

i just had a look at them. if it weren't for the sensible tone of your post i'd think you were pulling my leg!

i know i'm demonstrating my ignorance here. but they look....well, not in the same league as modern stuff? are they really the standard bearers for gut-wrenching bass?

 

[avole]

Firstly, as said, I'd be very surprised if the Rock can't be repaired. After all, it's not exactly a vintage DD filled with unobtainable control ICs!Secondly, turntable with gut-wrenching bass? That'll be a Garrard 301 or 401 you'll be needing.

Exactement, mon ami. I've been stunned by the bass on my 401, and I'm not a bass lover.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

Don't go by looks! Too much stuff is designed to look good. The Garrards were pro decks, basically. And what do DJs use for dance music? Technics direct drives. Which can be pimped to the heavens, I believe. I have an Oracle, but they are not renowned for slam.

 

[It Cost How Much!?!]

Try a Mk1 Rock Reference or a Oxford Crystal Reference or a Rock II. The newer Rocks are a bit pants.

At a higher price I was very taken with the Transrotor Fat Bob Reference and the Brinkman La Grange with a suitable arm/cart.

I too like good deep bass.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

Exactement, mon ami. I've been stunned by the bass on my 401, and I'm not a bass lover.

BTW, how are you enjoying the madhouse? Not like Vinyl Engine, is it? :shock:

 

[avole]

Sorry, finger slipped. The wam is great, but I'd never admit that in public.

 

[tomart]

The Kuzma XL will give you tremendous bass weight detail texture etc.

 

[epistaxsis]

Technics SP10 mk2

- Proper heavy plinth

- Decent modern arm (not an old bent design or a rega based one)

- I had a Shure V15VxMR cart (but they're now long gone)

That'll more than sate your need for L.F.O.

 

[gavman]

Try a Mk1 Rock Reference or a Oxford Crystal Reference or a Rock II. The newer Rocks are a bit pants.At a higher price I was very taken with the Transrotor Fat Bob Reference and the Brinkman La Grange with a suitable arm/cart.

I too like good deep bass.

i do like the look of the brinkmann. are they still widely available?

 

[avole]

Certainly in Germany http://www.phonophono.de/phono/plattenspieler/brinkmann.html

 

[gavman]

The Kuzma XL will give you tremendous bass weight detail texture etc.

wow. that's a bit of kit.

i can't find a uk price though. any ideas?

 

[gavman]

Certainly in Germany http://www.phonophono.de/phono/plattenspieler/brinkmann.html

well spotted. £9937

 

[BD Audio]

Loads.