Bi-wiring

Jezzer

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It's a conspiracy to make us buy more wire than we need isn't it?

Anyway, if your speaker has a properly designed crossover then it doesn't require biwiring.

 

Leonard Smalls

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Jezzer wrote:

It's a conspiracy to make us buy more wire than we need isn't it?Anyway, if your speaker has a properly designed crossover then it doesn't require biwiring.
thumbs_up.gif.3c8ee62eda0e86146178ab30b9facd86.gif


And as for triwiring, they're taking the piss! Triamping perhaps...

I'm with Dynaudio on this.

 

MartinC

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My opinion had always been bi-wiring would make absolutely no difference. That article made me think it might, but probably not for the better...

 
G

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Leonard Smalls wrote:

Jezzer wrote:
It's a conspiracy to make us buy more wire than we need isn't it?Anyway, if your speaker has a properly designed crossover then it doesn't require biwiring.
thumbs_up.gif.3c8ee62eda0e86146178ab30b9facd86.gif


And as for triwiring, they're taking the piss! Triamping perhaps...

I'm with Dynaudio on this.
me too, and to add tried passive biamping, and alyhough better than a single amp, not enough that byuing one better amp wouldn't cure, so would only consider polyamping if it was active, but a good passive xover is equaly as good.

 
G

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bi-wiring makes no difference at all. buy good quality single wire instead.

 

griffo104

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rudolph hucker wrote:

bi-wiring makes no difference at all. buy good quality single wire instead.
From my experience I have to agree with Mr Hucker here.

I have tried bi-wiring with both my Keilidhs and Diamond 8.1 - both sounded better with good better quality single wire. For Diamond 8.1 replace the brass inserts and run 2 very small pieces of the same cable (like the ones RA sells - speaker jumpers I think he calls tham) and it makes for a much better sound, imo.

 

Dannish

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Glad you guys said it makes no differnce. I have had 3 sets of bi-wirable speakers and never heard any change in performance. Thought i wasn't golden eared enough:D

 
G

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andi wrote:

Glad you guys said it makes no differnce. I have had 3 sets of bi-wirable speakers and never heard any change in performance. Thought i wasn't golden eared enough:D
it's just another rip off like most hifi is.

 
M

murray johnson

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Its an interesting idea

For the same reasons one might also expect bi-amping to sound 'wrong'. However it usually doesn't. In my experience it usually does sound much better. This is possibly because the benefits of isolating the inductive parts of the LF section of crossover and its associated amplifier from the HF section and its amplifier outweigh the changes caused by the fact that a different load is presented to each. I've always thought that if you do bi-amp you should use exactly the same type of amp for LF and HF and exactly the same type of cable for both aswell.

 

TIU

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I have my bi-wire cable configured two plugs at the amp end and four into each speaker. I have tried it shotgunned both ends with same cable jumpers and believe the way I have it now is better. Or is it? I remember another thread in which Dave Whit, whose opinions I greatly respect, said using all four speaker terminals with their own plug is a step up from single wire and jumpers. I hope I'm not doing my new speakers a disservice.

 

Pio2001

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Back to the article posted, the biggest phase difference given is -3° at 4 kHz. They tell

This changes the radiation pattern of the speaker with the music. The human ear is very sensitive to such phenomena.
I hope that people realize that 3° at 4 kHz is 2.7 µs, that is one millimeter at the speed of sound.

If you sittwo meters from your speakers and if their tweeter is 20 cm away from their woofer, then you will get the same "problem" if you sit one centimeter below your tweeter's height.

 

Davewhityetagain

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turnitup! wrote:

I have my bi-wire cable configured two plugs at the amp end and four into each speaker. I have tried it shotgunned both ends with same cable jumpers and believe the way I have it now is better. Or is it? I remember another thread in which Dave Whit, whose opinions I greatly respect, said using all four speaker terminals with their own plug is a step up from single wire and jumpers. I hope I'm not doing my new speakers a disservice.
I bi wire because when I asked the R&D guys at Tannoy and B&W which is better they said bi wire, I therefore tried it and to me it sounds better.

When speakers have been designed with four postions to wire up its for a reason

the jumpers or bars provided are for them who wants not to bi wire

why ? must ask that question next
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I suppose if a single run sounds as good or better to you then why not spend more dosh on a single that too makes some sense

I suspect that if single run was better than bi. speakers would be sold with less sockets on the back

as for cable companies paying speaker companies to put extra sockets on the back to sell more cable

well I doubt that works everyone has a budget and if its £20 a meter thats £20 a meter single run or £10 bi wired

peoples budget does not go up just because speaker makers say bi wired

the only tie in I know between cable maker and speaker maker is Tannoy and Van den hul

that goes as far as providing internal cable for Prestige Range and cables for Super Tweeters

 

boseman

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Jezzer wrote:

Anyway, if your speaker has a properly designed crossover then it doesn't require biwiring.
Isn't a split crossover a 'proper' design?

My speakers are biwirable with a proper split crossover and I believe them to be very properly designed.

I think the various hifi approaches just go round in circles... what's best - one box or two box cdp, intergrated or pre+pwr, biwiring or single wire???

In my opinion, it's a good way for hifi to generate interest / induce side or upgrading by presenting previously tried approaches with new 'research' showing that the newly favoured concept was and is the best.

I reckon in a few years, we'll begin to see the re-emergence of biwirable speakers and the pre/pwr combo. Perhaps.

 

griffo104

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Davewhityetagain wrote:

When speakers have been designed with four postions to wire up its for a reason
But is that reason to bi-wire or to bi-amp ?

I'm not arguing whether some people think bi-wiring sounds better - in my 2 cases it didn't so I can only speak from experience. However, from my experience bi-amping makes a much bigger difference - having the bass drawing power from a separate amp make a big difference.

When you bi-waire you are still drawing the same power from the same single amp - how can this help ?

I know the crossover design is very important here but at the end of the day the power is coming from the same source. That's why I have my doubts on the stated benefits of bi-wiring.

As for your comment above Dave, I would agree to a degree, but also state that some maybe designed to go along with a fashion than for any actual sonic improvements.

 

TIU

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Nearly all modern speakers have four posts for bi-wiring. This isn't just a gimmick or current 'fashion' to sell more cable as some believe, IMO. That would be silly. It's how the speakers have been designed and allows flexibility when bi-wiring, or more importantly, bi-amping.

For example, someone wants to try a pre/power combo or mono blocking. The overwhelming urge is to bi-amp because it makes more sense for one amp to look after the HFs and the other or others supply the LFs. This is difficult to do with two speaker posts or should they just be content with running single cables from the power amp and not have any options? I think it's about flexibility because if someone doesn't want to use all four posts they use the metal links provided or jumpers.

 

MartinC

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Pio2001 wrote:

I hope that people realize that 3° at 4 kHz is 2.7 µs, that is one millimeter at the speed of sound.If you sittwo meters from your speakers and if their tweeter is 20 cm away from their woofer, then you will get the same "problem" if you sit one centimeter below your tweeter's height.
A very good point!

 

MartinC

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turnitup! wrote:

Nearly all modern speakers have four posts for bi-wiring. This isn't just a gimmick or current 'fashion' to sell more cable as some believe, IMO. That would be silly. It's how the speakers have been designed and allows flexibility when bi-wiring, or more importantly, bi-amping.
FWIW I had largely thought that speaker manufacturers did it as consumers expect 'good' speakers to have the bi-wiring facility, and might think speakers without were somehow sub-standard. I've never thought speaker manufacturers cared about increasing cable sales.

I do of course realise that the likes of Dynaudio and AVI don't provide bi-wire terminals.

 

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