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Bit Rates

Bracko

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Jul 27, 2005
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Got a 60gb ipod for xmas (Previously had a 20gb) and was planning on converting my tracks to a higher bit rate (Currently 192kbps) so I recorded a few tracks at 320kbps and at Apple Lossless. I then did some blind listening tests (In as much as I didn't know out of the 3 identical tracks recorded which was 192,320 or lossless) and I am buggered if I could tell the difference. Am I going deaf
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Has anyone else tried this and if so what differences were apparent? By the way I have tested this with Grado Sr80's and Shure e5c's so the headphones shouldn't be the problem.

 

technobear

Ursine Wammer
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Sep 11, 2005
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Chris
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
  2. No
I've tried various bitrates from 192 to 320. I couldn't tell the difference either.

They all sounded sh!te
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For best quality, stick to uncompressed audio. You can get a lot of albums in 60 GB. At least 100.

 

Hawk

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Jul 25, 2005
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Ive been listening to diff bitrates too as i need to reduce the size of my iTunes library by about 5GB to get it on a 60gb ipod. Ive found that i can hear a difference between 192AAC and lossless fairly consistently on the iPod using ER4p headphones, but the diff between 320AAC and lossless is very hit and miss. It seems to depend on how good the recording was in the first place, for example elbow - leaders of the free world there is nothing between 192, 320 or lossless but the difference in jagged pill acoustic is much more obvious to my ears. The difference I hear is in the high frequencies, bass seems fairly consistent. Burning the tracks to a CD and playing on the hifi i can hear marked differences, in the car i cant tell at all.

Hawk

 

Chewie

Wammer
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Jul 20, 2005
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The Fens
AKA
Carl
I have just re ripped my collection following the acquisition of a 5th gen 60gb iPod to replace my 4th gen 40gb. Most of my mp3’s were originally ripped at 192 -224 because of file size using iTunes but prior to the arrival of the 5th gen I carried out a few comparative listening tests against 192, 320 and lossless and could quit easily pick out the 192’s.

I then ripped some tracks using EAC/ LAME v3.97 at V 2 --vbr-new, V 1 --vbr-new and V 0 --vbr-new to compare codac’s. Following these tests I decided the best compromise between quality, size and battery life for me was EAC/ LAME v3.97 (-V 1 --vbr-new) averaging between 225 and 255 vbrand in all honesty I cannot hear any difference between them and lossless when listening to them via the 5th gen and Etymotic ER-4P's :oops:I can hear differences with some tracks when hooked up to my main system but I would obviously use the original disks for serious listening.

 

odell

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Jan 4, 2006
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I've found the best compromise between file size and sound quality is to use Exact Audio Copy coupled with theLame encoder, set to use Lame's alt-preset extreme setting.

This setup takes a little bit of configuring but is much better than iTunes or Windows Mediain my experience, particularly if you have a less than perfect CD to rip from.

 

Hawk

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Jul 25, 2005
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odell wrote:

I've found the best compromise between file size and sound quality is to use Exact Audio Copy coupled with the Lame encoder, set to use Lame's alt-preset extreme setting.This setup takes a little bit of configuring but is much better than iTunes or Windows Media in my experience, particularly if you have a less than perfect CD to rip from.
Sounds interesting, how big are the files? and excuse the dumb question but if i wanted to try this I assume ill need and alternative to iTunes to manage the library and uploading to the iPod?? If thats the case whats the package and is it mac compatable?

Thanks

Hawk

 

peter312

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Dec 29, 2005
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Cheshire, UK
AKA
Peter
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
alt-preset extreme encodes mp3's at 320kbps cbr. You can still use your itunes to manage your library and connect to your ipod - you simply import the mp3's via the itunes menu.

The lame encoder can be used by other programs as well as exact audio copy (eac), so if eac is not mac compatible, all is not lost.

Have a look at www.exactaudiocopy.org for eac and have a look at the mp3 forum at http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=idxto see if there's any guidance as to mac compatibility. Hydrogen will also show you where to get the lame codec - if you're struggling, I can email it to you (although I don't know if theversion I've got will work on a mac).

cheers

Peter

 

odell

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New Wammer
Jan 4, 2006
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According to my Lame help preset extreme is variable bit rate in the range 200-240kbs. The constant bit rate 320kbs setting is called preset insane.

The file sizes vary with the musical complexity - the last thing I encoded was a CD of Aja by Steely Dan which comes out at a total of 70.7Mb - this is for 7 songs, most of which are 6 mins +

You can get Lame for Mac OSX but not Exact Audio Copy.

 

Chewie

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 20, 2005
2,201
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The Fens
AKA
Carl
odell wrote:

According to my Lame help preset extreme is variable bit rate in the range 200-240kbs. The constant bit rate 320kbs setting is called preset insane.
That’s correct :)I use “V 1 --vbr-new†which is the newer version of “Lame help preset extreme†and as I sated above my bitrate works out averaging between 225 and 255 vbrwith most modern rock/indie music.

 

Chewie

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 20, 2005
2,201
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The Fens
AKA
Carl
Hawk wrote:

Sounds interesting, how big are the files? and excuse the dumb question but if i wanted to try this I assume ill need and alternative to iTunes to manage the library and uploading to the iPod?? If thats the case whats the package and is it mac compatable?Thanks

Hawk
Hawk if you search iLounge here http://forums.ilounge.com/index.php?s=and then to the “Digital Audio Formats†you will find a link to a LAME plug-in for iTunes running on Mac’s.

Hawk :)I don’t know if you have ever been on iLounge before but it’s THE forum for iPods with 85,000 members and answers to any conceivable question you may have with regards to the iPod.

 

peter312

Wammer
Wammer
Dec 29, 2005
474
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33
Cheshire, UK
AKA
Peter
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
odell wrote:

According to my Lame help preset extreme is variable bit rate in the range 200-240kbs. The constant bit rate 320kbs setting is called preset insane.
You are, or course correct. My wrong, I'm afraid.:(I'm sorry for any confusion caused.

Note to self - :zip:until you've check it out first: don't rely on your memory.:minikiev:

cheers

Peter

 

Chewie

Wammer
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Jul 20, 2005
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The Fens
AKA
Carl
Chewie wrote:

Hawk wrote:
Sounds interesting, how big are the files? and excuse the dumb question but if i wanted to try this I assume ill need and alternative to iTunes to manage the library and uploading to the iPod?? If thats the case whats the package and is it mac compatable?Thanks

Hawk
Hawk if you search iLounge here http://forums.ilounge.com/index.php?s=and then to the “Digital Audio Formats†you will find a link to a LAME plug-in for iTunes running on Mac’s.
If you are interested Hawk here is a direct link to the software, which is free :^andif you backtrack on the link you will also find additional information and a help forum etc.

http://blacktree.com/apps/iTunes-LAME/

 

Geordie

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Jul 19, 2005
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Newcastle Upon Tyne,
I cant tell the difference between a decently encoded LAME VBR file and the original. I must be deaf. The thing is though, its described on hydrogen audio as being "sonically transparent". This is what puzzles me... people are saying they are shite, while others describe them as sonically transparent to around 99% of users.

At the end of the day though, believe whoever you want. I know who I believe and its not usually the people on here thats for sure
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meninblack

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Jul 20, 2005
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HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
I got a load of flak over on HFC for suggesting that uncompressed wav, lossless and high-bitrate mp3 all sounded the same to me. (You must be deaf, your CDP is rubbish; all the usual.)

I made up a test CD with the same couple of songs burned from 3 types of source file: an uncompressed .wav, a lossless .flac and a 320 kbps .mp3 file, and sent it to a couple of the golden-eared ones (blind, only I and a volunteer referee knew the track order.)

Could they tell the formats apart? Yeah, right.
rofl.gif.57a0859802223cfb25763a5f876a4be6.gif


I will happily send a copy to anyone on here who is convinced they could spot which is which.

 

Bracko

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 27, 2005
194
0
0
Cheltenham, , United
meninblack wrote:

I got a load of flak over on HFC for suggesting that uncompressed wav, lossless and high-bitrate mp3 all sounded the same to me. (You must be deaf, your CDP is rubbish; all the usual.)I made up a test CD with the same couple of songs burned from 3 types of source file: an uncompressed .wav, a lossless .flac and a 320 kbps .mp3 file, and sent it to a couple of the golden-eared ones (blind, only I and a volunteer referee knew the track order.)

Could they tell the formats apart? Yeah, right.
rofl.gif.57a0859802223cfb25763a5f876a4be6.gif


I will happily send a copy to anyone on here who is convinced they could spot which is which.
Glad it's not just me:)

 

Geordie

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 19, 2005
1,279
19
0
Newcastle Upon Tyne,
I've got FLAC (pun intended) for it here, HFC and zerogain.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, people hear what they want to. Remove the knowledge of what they are listening to from them, and miraculously, the differences just disappear
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Even then, some people would not be prepared to admit they are wrong, after all, its pretty shameful to admit you might be deaf on a hifi forum
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Hawk

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 25, 2005
6,883
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Herts, United Kingdo
Pardon? speak up im a bit....
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:rofl:

TBH as I said in my first post Its very hit and miss whether i can hear differences from 320 to lossless, but IMO there are differences between lower rates (<192) and lossless that can be heard..

 

Hawk

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 25, 2005
6,883
9
0
Herts, United Kingdo
Chewie wrote:

Hawk wrote:
Sounds interesting, how big are the files? and excuse the dumb question but if i wanted to try this I assume ill need and alternative to iTunes to manage the library and uploading to the iPod?? If thats the case whats the package and is it mac compatable?Thanks

Hawk
Hawk if you search iLounge here http://forums.ilounge.com/index.php?s= and then to the “Digital Audio Formats†you will find a link to a LAME plug-in for iTunes running on Mac’s.

Hawk
smile.png
 I don’t know if you have ever been on iLounge before but it’s THE forum for iPods with 85,000 members and answers to any conceivable question you may have with regards to the iPod.

 
Thanks for the link, that could be very handy as im also having a problem with upload time. Im missing firewire big stylee and im finding usb take hours.. and i mean hours, so long in fact that im convinced there is something wrong
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Hawk

 

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