Ethernet Cable Shoot Out – Shunyata, AudioQuest, Supra, Viablue, Ugreen

T

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As I expected, this went over your head. I guess you thought I was going to bring up the safety aspect but I am going in a different direction. 

Part of CE marking is its compliance with the Low Voltage Directive and EMC Directive. Now, unless carried out by an independent testing house, we are taking the item in questions compliance at the manufacturers word.

If we consider all the recent noise (pun intended) on forums about “hash on the mains” and RFI can you not see the irony in adding something that appears to have no guarantee that it won’t make the symptoms worse or even be the culprit? 

This hobby sometimes does feel like the blind leading the blind.
Oh well. Life goes on.

It works wonderfully.

 

rabski

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I literally don't care one single bit.

But it has the correct earthing as Hong Kong has the same requirements.
I don't really care either frankly.

However, for the avoidance of doubt and for common sense, it is worth pointing out that there is no guarantee or even indication that it meets Hong Kong regulations. It might be sold from HK, but appears to be primarily an export market product.

 
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Blackmetalboon

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That wouldnt stop it working wonderfully, no.
No, it wouldn’t.

Anyway, I’m glad you’ve finally managed to fix the serious flaws you had in your system, seems like money well spent. Although I’m surprised that you bought those pieces of kit, you know, ‘cos you trust your ears, if it sounded that bad in the first place.

 
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No, it wouldn’t.

Anyway, I’m glad you’ve finally managed to fix the serious flaws you had in your system, seems like money well spent. Although I’m surprised that you bought those pieces of kit, you know, ‘cos you trust your ears, if it sounded that bad in the first place.
Thankyou! I am glad to. Good times.

 
T

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I don't really care either frankly.

However, for the avoidance of doubt and for common sense, it is worth pointing out that there is no guarantee or even indication that it meets Hong Kong regulations. It might be sold from HK, but appears to be primarily an export market product.
Cool. It actually was assessed prior to use by my local hifi/tv repair man come qualified electrician (i call him Doc Brown as he was one of those mad eccentrics) who was thoroughly impressed with it as a build (not the cost though), but thats to come in my review for it. This thread is about the ethernet cables. 

 

awkwardbydesign

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If I’m reading you set up correctly;

Wall socket > Laptop PSU > Laptop > USB > DAC > Wall socket

That you stated that unplugging the laptop power cable caused the problem to stop would suggest this is the most probably cause. There have been other reported cases of this on various Hifi forums.
You've missed out the passive TVC.  Which will act as an isolating transformer, no?  And the DAC is powered from the laptop.

 

Blackmetalboon

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You've missed out the passive TVC.  Which will act as an isolating transformer, no?  And the DAC is powered from the laptop.
As the DAC is USB powered than @rabski will probably be correct. The passive pre is irrelevant to this, the noise you heard is part of the signal being sent to it from the DAC. 
 

Out of curiosity, has this ever happened before when using this set up?

 
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locheeboy

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If  the cables are shielded, and they are all just  transferring zeros and ones, is it just the amount of cash you hand over that determines the efficacy and quality ?

 

Fourlegs

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If  the cables are shielded, and they are all just  transferring zeros and ones, is it just the amount of cash you hand over that determines the efficacy and quality ?
No. 

Shielding only attempts to stop noise getting in from outside the cable. It does nothing to noise that may already be in the cable from say the switch or elsewhere. Although the ethernet standard includes isolation transformers at both ends this might not guarantee total isolation from all noise (the standard is after all probably concerned about data transfer integrity and not fine nuances of audio characteristic - in other words it probably doesn’t matter at all if a certain amount of rf noise gets into a data processing computer - indeed we know it doesn’t because many computers are themselves sources of rf noise).

So it could be that the various cables discussed filter noise in varying amounts.

 

awkwardbydesign

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As the DAC is USB powered than @rabski will probably be correct. The passive pre is irrelevant to this, the noise you heard is part of the signal being sent to it from the DAC. 
 

Out of curiosity, has this ever happened before when using this set up?
It's a different laptop from the last time.

 

awkwardbydesign

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If  the cables are shielded, and they are all just  transferring zeros and ones, is it just the amount of cash you hand over that determines the efficacy and quality ?
There are no such things as "zeros and ones".  That's just a conventional way of referring to on and off states, and "digital" cables transmit an analogue of the digital signal, and as such the pulses have a rise and decay time.  Look at how square waves are affected by so many factors.  At least that is my understanding of it.  o_O   :D

 
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rabski

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There are no such things as "zeros and ones".  That's just a conventional way of referring to on and off states, and "digital" cables transmit an analogue of the digital signal, and as such the pulses have a rise and decay time.  Look at how square waves are affected by so many factors.  At least that is my understanding of it.  o_O   :D
I get that, and I do try and keep an open mind (and open ears) with regard to everything, never mind cables.

The problem I have here in trying to understand how there can be audible differences is that the terminology between whether something is technically digital or analogue is irrelevant. Whether we consider the transfer of the 'digital' signal as being in an analogue state, and whether or not the waveform is an exact square wave, there comes a point in the chain when this signal is converted to 'true' anaolgue. In this process of conversion, the 'digital' signal is interpreted as being in either an on or off condition. There are no partial states. The digital to analogue converter 'reads' the input as either on or off. Whether you call the signal digital or analogue is not really important, it will still always be interpreted as being a change between solely two states and not any form of linear progression.

With this at the forefront, my 'problem' is that I cannot understand how a cable can have any effect on this process, other than introducing errors of such significance that they would stop it from working at all. I do and can understand (and believe) that a digital link can carry other surplus waveforms and frequencies that might have a direct effect on the analogue section of equipment down the chain. I can quite see how in this way an optical digital transfer could be beneficial. What I cannot get my head around (and I have to say, what I have never heard) is any repeatable, substantial differences caused by the type of wire carrying a digital signal.

 

rabski

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With regard to the other, separate, topic above. A transformer will not completely decouple any AC signal, although it will act as a filter in some repects, so no. Using a TVC does not provide any 'isolation' in this regard. It seems likely to me that something in the setup is prone to interference. Which laptop or computer is irrelevant to a degree. All switch-mode power supplies (apart from some designed specifically for audio) feed interference into their mains supply.

 
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Fourlegs

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What I cannot get my head around (and I have to say, what I have never heard) is any repeatable, substantial differences caused by the type of wire carrying a digital signal.
Different wires/cables can have different impedances, especially at RF frequencies and hence why that can act as RF filters and cause different amounts of RF noise to enter the chain. That noise can cause differential distortion in the analogue circuits of the DAC and which is quite audible. Hence the main reason that digital cables can sound different. Indeed some wires can act as aerials and pick up environmental RF noise.

For this reason optical cables feeding a DAC often suggested because it breaks the RF chain (as long as there are not ground loops which allow the noise to defeat that technique).

 

rabski

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Different wires/cables can have different impedances, especially at RF frequencies and hence why that can act as RF filters and cause different amounts of RF noise to enter the chain. That noise can cause differential distortion in the analogue circuits of the DAC and which is quite audible. Hence the main reason that digital cables can sound different. Indeed some wires can act as aerials and pick up environmental RF noise.

For this reason optical cables feeding a DAC often suggested because it breaks the RF chain (as long as there are not ground loops which allow the noise to defeat that technique).
Nick, that's exactly pretty much what I said. I can understand the (potential) effects on the analogue section of a DAC etc. being affected by spurious signals being transmitted through a digital cable. What I cannot understand is any direct effect of the cable on the 'digital' content, in view of the method of digital to analogue conversion.

 

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