Euro 2020 or should that be 2021 ?

garn63

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I do agree that was a complete performance by England last night & I enjoyed seeing them play with a confidence & swagger. Probably the best squad of players in my lifetime are available to Southgate right now.  Think where the divide is with fans, is pragmatism over bravery ?  Imo to have 2 of the worlds best players on the bench by choice...(both progressive & multi talented) does confuse me.  BUT I do fall into the fortune favours the brave camp. Caution against Italy would see us chasing the ball for 90 mins with fingers crossed against a team with real nous ? I do hope we get to the final & in the next 2 games & play with the knowledge that we are actually a very good team.    Grealish & Foden....I've got that nagging feeling he will wait until we are a goal down & then ask them to do the business.     All this doubt & uncertainty is probably why we love football   :)

 

Amormusic

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Ah screw it, I'm ready to (metaphorically) get my beer belly out, pour beer over my head and sing Fat Les Vindaloo at the top of my lungs 😂😂😂

Dare to dream. Come on boys.

 
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Speedracer

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41 minutes ago, plasticpenguin said:

@Speedracer

Can we stop the negative rubbish about Southgate? I will not not put him into a modern day Ramsey bracket, that's unfair on Ramsey and Southgate.

What I will say is just because you took a club team down doesn't mean you can't be any good at a national level. He worked for England youth, then took over at under-21 level.

The ex-German manger Low is the perfect example. He started off as Klinsmann's coach in 2006. Look at what he's won? He had no worthwhile credentials as a club manager.

After the shambles of Capello, Hodgson and Alladyce, the FA asked him to be the manager of England. He flatly refused, so the FA asked if he could just take temp charge until they could find a suitable candidate. After that period they [FA] formally announced Southgate as the permanent manager. Since then he's taken us to the semis of the World Cup in Russia and now the Euros. We tripped up against Croatia but he's tweaked the squad and we're back in a consecutive semi-final. That's not been achieved since 1966 and 1968.

Chances are we won't beat Denmark, but chances are we might. Even if they don't make the final, on home soil we have a great chance, he's achieved more in 5 or 6 years since Terry Venables in 1996.

Is it coming home? It might be, it might not. That song is a jinx. Much prefer.


First of all, one persons opinion is not "rubbish" if it is opposite to your own, we all have one & everyone's is as valid as any other.

Second, I started my post with my impressions of Southgate as England boss up to the start of this tournament, & then went on to say nothing but positive things I have seen from him, & the team, during this competition, so not negative at all.

Third, there will never be any criticism of Sir Alf from me, he has done what no other Englishman, or foreign manager either, has managed to do.

 

Blackmetalboon

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Well I do support England & want them to do well, my view is it is almost in spite of Southgate being the manager rather than because he is. He is a manager that took Middlesborough down to the Championship after a few years in the Premier League, & was sacked the following season as their board had no faith he would take them back up. To me he is little more than a yes man for the FA, who will cause no trouble & is good with the media, & there are so many things I don't like about his managerial decisions I don't know where to start.

HOWEVER. Last night was the best game I have seen England play in tournament football for a long time, yes the opposition wasn't top draw but you could see the players confidence rising like a tsunami, not something we are used to seeing. The players obviously buy into him & that is the main thing, we have a great squad of young talented players & keeping them all happy will be difficult, but based on last night I am starting to warm to him, we are at last looking like a team to be feared by others & be proud of for our supporters, long may it continue.
I agree with a large chunk of what you have written, last night was one of the first games in ages where I feel he let his players off the leash, albeit against a tired Ukrainian side.

His general playing style is far too conservative and sometimes his reluctance or inability to adjust tactics/formation during games is questionable.

We have a fantastic opportunity to reach the final, much to my friends amusement as I’d stated that I thought we’d struggle to get out of the group! 

Roll on Wednesday!

 
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Non-Smoking Man

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A great leader can make difficult or unpopular decisions and still have the full support of his followers - Southgate works extremely hard to maintain this. Whatever happens in this tournament going forward, he has shown his ability to the world.
Southgate is not a great leader. He's won a quarter final against an exhausted second rate side. If he wins the thing that makes him a good leader.

Where's your sense of proportion?

Jack.

 

myles

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Southgate is not a great leader. He's won a quarter final against an exhausted second rate side. If he wins the thing that makes him a good leader.

Where's your sense of proportion?

Jack.
Only people who win things are great leaders? People who win things are winners, people who lead well are good leaders and I think you are confusing the two. You've been spoilt (well, not for a while eh!) by a club who used to win a lot and you have lost your perspective massively. This isn't about the one game 

He's managed the whole tournament extremely well and led a group of hungry players even better - you can see this by the togetherness of the group; even players who are unlikely to get a game are invested.  

There are arguably four opportunities to win a trophy as England manager and we haven't won one since '66 so everyone needs to chill their jets and use reasonable metrics. 

 

Non-Smoking Man

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Only people who win things are great leaders? People who win things are winners, people who lead well are good leaders and I think you are confusing the two. You've been spoilt (well, not for a while eh!) by a club who used to win a lot and you have lost your perspective massively. This isn't about the one game 

He's managed the whole tournament extremely well and led a group of hungry players even better - you can see this by the togetherness of the group; even players who are unlikely to get a game are invested.  

There are arguably four opportunities to win a trophy as England manager and we haven't won one since '66 so everyone needs to chill their jets and use reasonable metrics. 
I'm struggling to make sense of all this..

I did not say 'only people who win things are great leaders' - I used the word 'good' - not 'great' in any case.

I'm not confusing anything. I'm not 'spoilt by a club who used to win a lot and I havent 'lost my perspective'.

His management skills? They are adequate, maybe better, but I'm not in the best position to judge that as I'm not on the training ground, nor present at the interviews etc. I just see the game - like you. The players show some group spirit - so have all the teams. The ones who havent been picked arent going to moan about it are they?

England are in the semis following a favourable draw. So far so good but its too early to talk about 'greatness'.

Perhaps you can advise how I can chill my jets and use reasonable metrics - because i havent got a clue what you are talking about.

Jack

 

myles

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@Non-Smoking Man you said ' If he wins the thing that makes him a good leader.'. You have no clue what you are talking about so are going to struggle with the concepts I put to you. 

 

DIB

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Looking forward to Italy vs Spain, but who will win?  It's a true 50/50 game and could be quite tactical, I don't think I'll be having a flutter.

 

DIB

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I thought that was a fabulous game of football, really exciting. Two contrasting styles, technically excellent, plenty of passion, end to end, and refereed superbly. Can't ask for any more.

 

Nopiano

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What’s the world coming to when tonight’s game isn’t on the BBC?  

They must be pretty upset too, but I guess these terrestrial broadcasters have to share things out.  

 

Non-Smoking Man

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England face Denmark @ Wembley tonight in the second semi-final - the winners to play Italy.

Though England convincingly outstayed the Ukraine and ultimately won comfortably in the 'quarters', tonight they face a side who, since they changed to a 4 man defence, have allowed only 3 non-penalty chances in their last 5 matches (ref. Liam Kelly, writing in the Sporting Life, 7th July).

So chances will be few and far between unless the redoubtable, Rada trained, Raheem Sterling can fall over convincingly, once again, in the penalty area and 'earn' his side a pen, or two.

Up front we have seen how inactive and ineffectual the English centre forward, Harry Kane, has been all tournament in harrying (hoho) the opposition's defence and midfield when they have posession, only coming alive and being worthy of his place, when on the end of superb assists from his teammates, esp. from the left side emanating from Luke Shaw.

If Shaw et. al. are stifled then Kane has no service and he cant win the ball, or dribble successfully at this level.

If its 0-0, or 1-0 to the away side with 20 minutes to go, the modest Gareth Southgate will have to resort to the better player, but one short of match practice owing to the manager's selection policy, Marcus Rashford. How can he be expected to excel without a kick in recent matches?

England have the crowd and the confidence so will be hard to beat, but Denmark are arguably equal in terms of emotional appeal due to the unfortunate demise of their star player earlier in the competition. Denmark will not lack for international support.

Marginal preference is for Denmark to proceed to the Final. In betting terms I like Luke Shaw to provide at least 1 assist.

Factors such as injuries and poor refereeing preclude any certainty over this game, and the sides have a roughly equal chance in my book starting out. Will Kane be prone to injury after this inadvisable quick succession of games?

Neither side will want to lose the match early on, and, given they both have good defences, I expect a 0-0 scoreline at halftime.

I dont think England are quite as good as they have appeared and will need the first goal to succeed - they may not be able to come from behind.

Denmark just win my vote.

Jack.

 

Speedracer

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You know what Jack, despite having a few misgivings regarding team selection & safety first tactics, I am coming round to the fact we are evolving into a good team. Gut feeling is we should have a bit too much for Denmark, but it won't be easy & I am sure there will be a few heart in mouth moments, it's what we do. I certainly don't see it as free flowing as last nights game, & seeing as I mentioned that, I wasn't as impressed by the game as a lot of people seemed to be. Yes there was excitement & it was end to end, but that was mainly because both teams retention of the ball was shockingly poor & they both made lots of mistakes. IMO of course.

So I am optimistic, hopeful & excited, I just hope we show our true selves & don't freeze like that dreadful night against Iceland.

 

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