Linn Owners

Exaktbox-sub

anatius

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I have a Klimax based 5.1 surround sound system using a 6 channel Exaktbox which drives the sub-woofer, centre channel and rear speakers.
The front speakers are 350 exact. I would like to know if driving the sub-woofer with an Exaktbox-sub would provide a significant improvement
in sound quality to justify its purchase?
 

Coalboy68

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I run a 350 exakt system with exakt sub and to be honest very little comes out of the k345, so I would save some money.
 

Jail4CEOs2

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This is an excellent question. Theoretically your Exaktbox is performing the same duties as an Exakt sub box. Is your Exaktbox Klimax or Akurate? The Exakt sub box is described as being Akurate level. This question is confounding, and would be worthy of reaching out to the Linn helpdesk to ask this question. Please reply back here. This is an interesting situation.
 

wildwildWes

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My assumption was that if one went high enough up the speaker chain then you get the bass, so subwoofers become superfluous. Guess I'm wrong...
 

anatius

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This is an excellent question. Theoretically your Exaktbox is performing the same duties as an Exakt sub box. Is your Exaktbox Klimax or Akurate? The Exakt sub box is described as being Akurate level. This question is confounding, and would be worthy of reaching out to the Linn helpdesk to ask this question. Please reply back here. This is an interesting situation.
Hi Jail4CEOs2: I shall ask the Linn Helpline but I can tell you that my Exaktbox is Klimax level and is being upgraded to Organik. I think the Exact-sub requires a filter which matches the low level cross over point of the main speakers woofers.
 

heimo

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Hello wild wild Wes I don't think you are wrong. My situation is that I am running 5.1 surround sound set up and in that context a sub woofer is mandatory.
Do you use the sub for stereo listening as well? How big a difference does it make?
 

Chetys

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Hi, I have a 350 Aktiv system (not exaxt). I can tell you my experience re subs.
For music - no, added something, but lost some timing and musicality, better without.
For movies - 100% yes. I have a 7.2 surround system with the 350s and no way would I be without subs (2 big Rels)
 
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Bob Chapman

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I have a pair of Super 10 (“bookshelf”) speakers with a pair of REL T5/I subs configured with an Akurate level system including exact-sub. In effect this is 2+2 system for both a/v. My room is not suitable for further functionality. I can only say it works for me. Exact box-sub is definitely helpful in integrating the components in conjunction with SO
 

Jail4CEOs2

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Hi Jail4CEOs2: I shall ask the Linn Helpline but I can tell you that my Exaktbox is Klimax level and is being upgraded to Organik. I think the Exact-sub requires a filter which matches the low level cross over point of the main speakers woofers.
Exakt acts as the crossover. With an Exakt sub box when you set it up, and include it in SPACE, you will have the option to set the roll on point (you called it a filter) for the sub. This will also roll off your main front speakers. It will also do a great job of integrating the sub in the overall presentation.

Your question still has to be answered by Linn. As I understand your question, you're asking if an Exakt sub box would provide any benefit over you just continuing to using a channel in your Klimax Exaktbox. My vote is no, but Linn might say different.

And I'm another who hasn't found massive throbbing bass with an exakted sub and fairly good speakers, but has experienced a much improved presentation and sound field with the addition of an exakted sub.
 

akamatsu

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Exakt acts as the crossover. With an Exakt sub box when you set it up, and include it in SPACE, you will have the option to set the roll on point (you called it a filter) for the sub. This will also roll off your main front speakers. It will also do a great job of integrating the sub in the overall presentation.
Most sub-woofers do the roll on/roll off bit (low pass/high pass filtering). My Sizmik has this feature. REL subs don't do this, and their reason for not providing a high pass filter is pretty lame.

https://rel.net/blog/2021-03-24/pri...high-pass-filter-and-why-doesnt-rel-use-them/
I would say, for REL subs in a Linn system, Exakt would be essential. Or just get a sub that has a high pass filter.

Edit: I should clarify that I was talking about in a 2.1 system. An AV processor could handle the High pass filtering in a surround system.
 
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Bob Chapman

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REL tell me they have offered data and model samples to LINN who have not taken them up. I started with one sub, then a second one, finally the exact sub, so an incremental approach is one way to manage this. Some LINN dealers also have the rather traditional view that subs are not desirable. My dealer is excellent and tends to wards that. This is a point we disagree on.
 
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Rille

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I would like to start by saying that I have no experience with the Exakt box for subwoofers.
Through the experience of integrating two A221 subwoofers into my 2.2 passive system with A212, I have experienced some things that you generally don't hear.

The position of the subwoofer in relation to the satellites is anything but arbitrary. When integrating my subwoofers musically, I can hear and evaluate differences in the range of 3 mm when I move the subwoofers parallel to the satellites in depth.

I never succeeded in musically integrating one subwoofer into the system. A second one was needed.

The order of the crossovers of satellite and subwoofer sometimes does not allow both to run in the same phase. In this case it is necessary to invert the phase of the satellites or the subwoofer. Initially, I had inverted the phase of the satellites and operated the subwoofers in phase. I expected a better impulse behaviour of the subwoofers during playback. Obviously, however, this is not so important. Much more important seems to be the impulse with which the beat is set. This is probably done via the tweeter, as the ear obviously reacts more sensitively there. The perception of the bass is subordinated to this. Meanwhile, the satellite plays in correct phase and the subwoofer is inverted in phase.

Using the subwoofer's internal filters to restrict the signal to the satellites has never worked for me. The signal is sent from the power amp directly to the satellites and to the subwoofers. The satellite runs open downwards and the subwoofer is limited in its frequency response upwards.

Further fine-tuning of the subwoofer then requires a lot of patience.

I can't judge to what extent an exact box makes the work of adjustment easier. But I don't think it makes it trivial.

But when you have managed it, this system plays in such a relaxed, easy-going way that it's really fun. Mind you, my A212s and A221s are already over 15 years old and play passively.
 
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anatius

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Oct 27, 2021
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This is an excellent question. Theoretically your Exaktbox is performing the same duties as an Exakt sub box. Is your Exaktbox Klimax or Akurate? The Exakt sub box is described as being Akurate level. This question is confounding, and would be worthy of reaching out to the Linn helpdesk to ask this question. Please reply back here. This is an interesting situation.
I received this reply from the Linn Helpline "
I have spoken to an engineer who advises that if you have an Organik Klimax Exaktbox configured for surround mode, then there is no audio quality difference between this and the Exaktbox Sub.



Best regards"
 

anatius

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Oct 27, 2021
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Do you use the sub for stereo listening as well? How big a difference does it make?
Hello heimo I can't answer your question in full because some of my equipment is being upgraded and the rest is in storage. The issue you have raised is addressed by the Surround Sound Module which detects whether the signal is 2 channel or multi channel and processes the signal accordingly.
Sorry for the late reply.
 

vicdiaz

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Wondering how a sub will perform by connecting it to the bass outputs of an Exaktbox and fine tuning it via the sub controls.
 

Jail4CEOs2

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It will work, others have used the output of their Exaktbox, but have said adding the Exakt sub box was a significant improvement.

Think how much care is needed to position a sub correctly in the room (without SPACE). Then think how Exakt and SPACE work to send each drivers frequencies to the listening position so they all arrive at the same millisecond. Now imagine you are sending bass frequency destined for a sub and a main speaker along the only wire that the magic Exakt sound making computer can send the (same) frequencies down. Even if you locate a sub in the SPACE room layout, the same signal is coming from two places in the room, so the timing is way off.

I had this same question when I was planning for a sub. I never existed in the condition you're advocating because I found a good used deal on my sub box before I found a good sub. The sub box wound up solving a wiring issue for me too, as I didn't have an RCA cable long enough to go from the Exaktbox-i to the sub, so it was also the bonus of being able to locate it close to the sub. Others have done Exakt without Exakt on the sub, and liked it. It was definitely a burr under my saddle to have to pony up for the Exakt sub box, limiting the capital I could spend on the sub, but it does work really well. I saw a used one pop up on eBay the other day.
 
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Harryup

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I have just bought a Exaktbox Sub. I will use measurment to understand the situation. For me the usaual comment about musical or non musical subs are comming from badly integrated subs. I will try to build my own filter to integrate my subs. To use "general" filters is a very low precision integration. If I will not succed in building my own exaktfilters I will contact sunbeamgls to get help. I'm totally convinced that a well designed filter is crucial. Are there any moore forum members that have tried to start building Exakt filter?
 
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