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full range speakers

B

batman

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unless you got a completely full range speaker, your not really hearing the music as it was intended ... discuss ....
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notaclue

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Unless you know how 'theartist(s)' intended 'the music' to be listened to,then you have no grounds on which to base a sensible discusion.

The end.

 

MartinC

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You certainly don't need full range speakers (if by that you mean covering 20Hz to 20kHz) for the vaste majority of recordings, in that there simply isn't anything happening in the bottom octave. You can't I suppose really argue with the statement that to accurately reproduce the recording you need speakers that are physically capable of reproducing the full recorded frequency range (in the room they are placed).

 

JamPal

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No idea.

I doubt you would really be aware to be honest. Is it ok if I don't care either way? I just buy whatever sounds good to me.

Come to think of it ('starting to care now, damn) I would never ask what the frequency range was, as the answer would be meaningless in real terms. I would either like them or not.

Also, hearing the music as it was intended could be a mixed blessing. For example I would rather not hear Mariah Carey at all. Therefore a frequency range of 1-2hz would be the perfect for that kind of music.
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rockmeister

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how was it intended... I wonder about the quality of monitors in recording studios... the band listening to the final mix must be influenced by what sound is coming out of those... do they bear much resemblance to domestic hi fi? But a recording of a live orchestra is a different thing again isn't it?

 

mosfet

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Hi-fi loudspeakers, with the exception of possibly a few, are subjective; designed to be musically appealing to the listener at the expense of neutrality. Studio monitors are objective; designed to be neutral and nothing else.

Build quality at any given price point is comparable - a number of familiar hi-fi names have parallel product ranges in the pro-audio sector. In terms of absolute quality, irrespective of price, studio monitors (considered objectively) are far superior.

 

JamPal

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mosfet wrote:

Hi-fi loudspeakers, with the exception of possibly a few, are subjective; designed to be musically appealing to the listener at the expense of neutrality. Studio monitors are objective; designed to be neutral and nothing else. Build quality at any given price point is comparable - a number of familiar hi-fi names have parallel product ranges in the pro-audio sector. In terms of absolute quality, irrespective of price, studio monitors (considered objectively) are far superior.
Quite so. IMO the search for perfection is futile in the extreme, just get on with enjoying what you hot. If something is bugging you (loose bottom end for example) then try and sort it, otherwise as Lawrie would say: Enjoy the music.

 
E

earl of sodbury

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There are so manyvariables involved in the conception, writing, performing recording, engineering, production and pressing ofmusic that being pedantic about any one factor in its reproduction is rendered pointless.
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I know this for a fact, yet do not practice what I preach!
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Madness!
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churz, eofs

 
B

batman

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notaclue wrote:

Unless you know how 'theartist(s)' intended 'the music' to be listened to,then you have no grounds on which to base a sensible discusion.The end.
i,m guessing that the vast majority of artistes would like it to be reproduced to the most accurate level they recorded it , thus . whatever is audible on a full range speaker, i bet that when a full orchestral work was written it was not with the intentions of the low frequencies AWOL on a smal bookshelf .....same applies to most genres of music ( also read hi frequencies)
 

mosfet

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It’s not so much what’s happening at the upper and lower frequency extremes batman, more what’s happening in-between. In terms of full range reproduction from 20Hz to 20kHz most hi-fi loudspeakers get within spitting distance – even a small bookshelf loudspeaker with a frequency response typically +/-3db 65Hz to 20kHz.

Of greater importance is the frequency response between about 400Hz and 5000hz where our hearing is most sensitive (because this also happens to be the frequency range of the human voice). Unfortunately bang in the middle of this range is the crossover region where the woofer crosses over to the tweeter – at this point the frequency response of a loudspeaker will dip or drop out a little (an unavoidable consequence of passive loudspeaker crossovers). With many designs of hi-fi loudspeaker this dip is deliberately exaggerated to lessen the upper-mid harshness of CD thereby making a loudspeaker that is more appealing to the ear. Other ‘tricks’ are employed by loudspeaker designers to similarly alter the frequency response of a loudspeaker to give a more appealing or attractive presentation.

Of course there is nothing wrong with this because hi-fi is entirely subjective. However if neutrality is the aim a studio monitor will be far more ‘truthful’ of the artists’ intentions and the recording.

 

Kiang

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batman wrote:

notaclue wrote:
Unless you know how 'theartist(s)' intended 'the music' to be listened to,then you have no grounds on which to base a sensible discusion.The end.
i,m guessing that the vast majority of artistes would like it to be reproduced to the most accurate level they recorded it , thus . whatever is audible on a full range speaker, i bet that when a full orchestral work was written it was not with the intentions of the low frequencies AWOL on a smal bookshelf .....same applies to most genres of music ( also read hi frequencies)
Not long ago I heard someone mention the loudspeakers used by Diana Krall- Anyone know which ones they are?

 

Kiang

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First of all - There is no true full range driver.

Mechanically though it is possible for a driver to reproduce the full range of frequencies from 20hz to 20khz , no driver does this optimally with a flat response across all frequencies.

The fostex sigma fe108ez for example produces a near flat response from 150hz to 10 khz. Above this there is distortion and below this the response slopes away.

It is possible with good design(horns,TL) to try and artificially recover the bottom end but little can be done about the top end even with for eg: phase plugs.

Therefore it is not uncommon to add a good quality tweeter or even a super tweeter to accent this.

Like the fostex every full range driver has a sweet spectrum wherein reproduction of frequencies will be more honest. The better drivers are the ones which try to extend this spectrum more and more towards the top end (upto about 15khz usually ).

The bottom end recovery is left to the designer of the cabinet and is more easily achieved in large horn designs.

The question of honesty of reproduction as with music is achieved as above but also the fact that we are dealing with a single driver allows better focus in the presentation with the "full range" of frequencies being presented to the listener along a single axis.

Horns achieve these well but to get a near flat response is very difficult - nigh impossible.

Multi driver speakers achieve this more easily with crossovers .

As we all know - a flat response is not by any means a guarantee of perfect reproduction of music, it is however the best reference electronically to compare, and to relate to hearing and music.

 

subterranean-alien

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You wont find and full-range covering such a wide spectrum unless you've got HUUUUGE back-loaded horns and live in a cathedral to house them. Im in the process of designing some full range speakers and the best I can hope for is 50htz at the bottom end and around 22khtz at the top, thats using the 8" Fostex 207E.

However in a properly designed cabinet they can give a sound like no other. Even something like the 3" Fostex FE103 in a bl horn or the Jordan JX92S in transmission line will give a fantastic sound, just dont expect much under 100htz.

 

wolfgang

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Knowing Alfred Brendal the pianist bought a pair of B&W 804s do make them more desirable. However, not sure when ATC tell us Robbie Williams like their speakers has the same effect.

 

MartinC

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batman wrote:

i,m guessing that the vast majority of artistes would like it to be reproduced to the most accurate level they recorded it , thus . whatever is audible on a full range speaker, i bet that when a full orchestral work was written it was not with the intentions of the low frequencies AWOL on a smal bookshelf .....same applies to most genres of music ( also read hi frequencies)
I think you're right to distinguish between genres of music, since much 'chart' material will be mixed with reproduction on lo-fi systems in mind (quite sensibly) and so an accurate reproduction of this would not really be a good idea. This is something we all suffer from I expect, in that trying to get a system that can reproduce classical/acoustic material accurately without then giving massively over the top bass on pop material is tough. Or at least I assume this is down to different mixing, rather than any inherant difference in the actual recording process (say a difference from using close mikes to a couple some distance from an orchestra)?

 

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