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Guardian of sanity

mosfet

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 20, 2005
6,194
19
0
Surrey
AKA
Richard
“So I propose, as a pilot study, to place, on badscience.net, two files, clearly labelled, one recorded from the CD player powered by the expensive cable, one powered with a normal kettle lead. There will also be a third file, and you can vote on which is which. You can do what you like to identify them: burn it to a CD, listen with headphones, examine the raw data, whatever. But the catch is this: it's a palaver, and I'm not going to bother, if the hi-fi buffs are just going to bleat about how unfair the test is. So this is your chance to participate in the design of an experiment. Post your thoughts on badscience.net. I want everybody to be happy.â€

Plenty of further comments here http://www.badscience.net/?p=202

 

Davewhityetagain

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 24, 2005
11,690
4
0
, ,
he tell stories for example he has wrote this time..............

So let's talk about the high end hi-fi industry. I wrote about their very expensive power cables last month, ranging from £30 to a whopping £1,800
He said nothing about £1,800 leads, we pointed this out to him he just spoke about a £30 lead

 

Davewhityetagain

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 24, 2005
11,690
4
0
, ,
I note he comments on one of mine and Tonys posts from here but does not give credit to the web site.

I also note no comment on my email
rofl.gif.57a0859802223cfb25763a5f876a4be6.gif


 
U

Umberto

Guest
Sounds like a typical journalist. Looking to sensationalise.

 

Beobloke

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 29, 2005
7,135
2,848
158
AKA
Adam
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Would this be goodtime to admit that i have NEVER* heard any difference made to hi-fi equipment by changing mains cables?
sos.gif.b46fa5e4a1b4ea9bb8774a15a6092288.gif


Or shall i just keep quiet?
shock.gif.7732780fe7e208b945ce79ca96402fca.gif


* - actually i'm lying. One fancy £200 mains cable i tested wasvery stiff and i had to force it into position - it suddenly moved the CD player i was using halfway through the test and made it skip. So i suppose you could say it actually WORSENED the listening experience.:shocked:

 

mosfet

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 20, 2005
6,194
19
0
Surrey
AKA
Richard
I’m in two minds again about the Goldacre test. On the one hand he’s trying to find something out, to do something the UK Hi-Fi press are reluctant to do (speculate on the exact reasons why) but on the other he’s still using unnecessary and derogatory language; “hi-fi freaksâ€.

 

Davewhityetagain

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 24, 2005
11,690
4
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, ,
mosfet wrote:

I’m in two minds again about the Goldacre test. On the one hand he’s trying to find something out, to do something the UK Hi-Fi press are reluctant to do (speculate on the exact reasons why) but on the other he’s still using unnecessary and derogatory language; “hi-fi freaksâ€.
He is just wanting to sell newspapers

 
M

Mr Coherent

Guest
Dave,

Can you point to the part of his articule where he quotes us please?

 

JamPal

Content Provider
Wammer
Jul 19, 2005
32,264
552
173
Sussex, West Side
AKA
James
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Mr Coherent wrote:

Dave,Can you point to the part of his articule where he quotes us please?
He doesn't in the article Tones, but we get a nice mention on badscience.net. I suspect that coupled with Dave mentioing us on some wierd but popular Google community has caused the sudden membershiop surge.

523.. wow. I wonder if any of them will EVER post. :Unhappy:

Come on join in.
thumbs_up.gif.3c8ee62eda0e86146178ab30b9facd86.gif


 

Davewhityetagain

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 24, 2005
11,690
4
0
, ,
Mr Coherent wrote:

Dave,Can you point to the part of his articule where he quotes us please?
Its gone :cool:I posted here or hi fi choice and pasted an item on ce testing

You answered it, also in the original thread was sommething Russ Andrews had said to me

 

mosfet

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 20, 2005
6,194
19
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Surrey
AKA
Richard
Ben Goldacre said:

Ok kids, good to get some issues ironed out, but we’d better get cracking on this now. Just a few practical things to be sorted:1. i’m going to build a webpage with links to the files and email links to vote with. if anybody thinks they ought to program a more complicated voting system then do speak now.

2. for music, we’ve got: some stuff from the label NAIM coming on cd (i think); probably some asian electronic stuff; and some contemporary classical. if anyone can put something big glamorous and commercial in my hand with proof that i can use it without being sued then do so quickly, it’ll be much better.

3. has anybody got a cd player which takes a kettle lead somewhere in central-ish london that i can borrow for a day?
http://www.badscience.net/?p=209

From what I can gather Goldacre is trying to find out if there is any audible difference with the digital output of a CD player when used with a standard / non-standard power cord. Apparently this has been claimed by some vendors.

Presumably the ones and zeros sound better with a fancy power cord? Has anyone ever heard this effect as an improvement with a transport – I’ve not seen any comments on any forum etc

 
E

Effem

Guest
mosfet wrote:

Ben Goldacre said:
Ok kids, good to get some issues ironed out, but we’d better get cracking on this now. Just a few practical things to be sorted:1. i’m going to build a webpage with links to the files and email links to vote with. if anybody thinks they ought to program a more complicated voting system then do speak now.

2. for music, we’ve got: some stuff from the label NAIM coming on cd (i think); probably some asian electronic stuff; and some contemporary classical. if anyone can put something big glamorous and commercial in my hand with proof that i can use it without being sued then do so quickly, it’ll be much better.

3. has anybody got a cd player which takes a kettle lead somewhere in central-ish london that i can borrow for a day?
http://www.badscience.net/?p=209

From what I can gather Goldacre is trying to find out if there is any audible difference with the digital output of a CD player when used with a standard / non-standard power cord. Apparently this has been claimed by some vendors.

Presumably the ones and zeros sound better with a fancy power cord? Has anyone ever heard this effect as an improvement with a transport – I’ve not seen any comments on any forum etc
Mr Goldacre really has lost the plot. There is a 'difference' from swapping the power cord on a transport but 1) It's ever so subtle and 2) You needhigh resolution ancillaries to detect that subtle change. Whether he can detect any worthwhile differences is more conjecture than certainty.

Here's more food for thought:

Been playing for nigh on 18 months a CDR of a certainpiece of music as the original CD was mislaid. In that time I have got to know this music intimately as it also happens to be one of my test tracks. Found the original CD last week and it sure as heck sounds 'different' to the CDR copy I have been listening to for so long. It's supposed to be 1's and 0's in a mirror copy of the original but there IS a difference that I can hear.

 

mosfet

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 20, 2005
6,194
19
0
Surrey
AKA
Richard
So, is there any software that can compare WAV files bit-for-bit?

Surely if a WAV file sourced from a CD transport or player with a standard power cord is identical bit-for-bit to a WAV file sourced from the same CD transport or player with a non-standard power cord, then those two files are by definition identical?

I don’t know if this is the case or not (and I’m not that clued up on the digital side of things) but it sounds a reasonable way to find out.

 

cjr

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 8, 2005
8,561
45
0
UK
mosfet wrote:

So, is there any software that can compare WAV files bit-for-bit? Surely if a WAV file sourced from a CD transport or player with a standard power cord is identical bit-for-bit to a WAV file sourced from the same CD transport or player with a non-standard power cord, then those two files are by definition identical?

I don’t know if this is the case or not (and I’m not that clued up on the digital side of things) but it sounds a reasonable way to find out.
I think it is a perfectly valid way to check if a power lead changes the output of a CDP acting as a transport. The only way they "could" differ with regard to recording onto CDRs IIRC Moseft is that jitter can supposedly be transferred onto a CDR, a claim I read about a few years ago. Thus the kettle lead may be more succeptable to increasing jitter, but all things considered it will be measurable I would imagine.

 

jon

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 20, 2005
1,639
49
78
, ,
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Mr Goldacre really has lost the plot. There is a 'difference' from swapping the power cord on a transport but 1) It's ever so subtle and 2) You need high resolution ancillaries to detect that subtle change. Whether he can detect any worthwhile differences is more conjecture than certainty.
Surely the fact that some cable vendors (Russ Andrews, for example) claim that their mains cables will audibly enhance even budget equipment means that this is a reasonable thing to test - so long as the supplier of the cable in question makes this claim about it, why not test it?

Been watching this debate, and tbh I'm surprised that no cable vendors have taken the chance to organise a blind test to verify their claims about sound quality. This isn't a dig at you Effem - I know that a small company may have limited resources - but for a larger companies one would expect that the publicity they could get in the Guardian from doing such a test would be well worth the cost of carrying it out (if they believe that their claims are verifiable). Compared to the cost of advertising space in the Guardian (bloody expensive
shock.gif.7732780fe7e208b945ce79ca96402fca.gif
), organising a trial wouldn't cost *that* much...

Jon

 

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