Linn Owners

Linn's Time Is Up

d88

Newbie
Wammer
Dec 2, 2020
90
89
38
Scotland
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Hi, I'm a new Linn owner  so apologies for just jumping in and giving my 2c worth.

Essentially I've been on a journey and recently trialled the NAD M10 ,  Naim Uniti Star and Nova (at seperate periods), before settling on the MDSM. Why the journey, ? The NAD- the SQ just wasn't cutting it for me, although it was neat product overall.

The Naim Uniti - build quality (hardware) was superb, looked the part with plenty of plus points, However both the Star and Nova were very buggy firmware wise, they crashed constantly and every other day needed a complete factory reset and updated to the latest firmware as the thing became bricked. Eventually my patience ran out and both were returned.

Next up was the Linn MDSM. OK, the software integration isn't perfect, (but you guys know that already) build quality (MDSM) is decent but not on the par with the Naim Unity, however the Majik DSM internal firmware software is stable, in fact the unit has not crashed since I got it and more importantly the SQ for me is more natural and detailed compared with Unity which I'm more than happy with, even if it is the entry level Majik.

I appreciate the op has issues, however I can assure you Naim are having some big issues of their own. 

 
  • Like
Reactions: Quasimodo

JensA

Wammer Plus
Wammer Plus
Oct 12, 2018
620
720
148
Hamburg, Germany
AKA
Jens-Michael Arndt
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
it doesn't tell me who played sitar on Amon Düül II's Tanz Der Lemmings
Hi @Nestor Turton,

Roon tells me it was Alois Gromer aka Al Gromer Khan playing the sitar on Tanz der Lemminge xD

And this is exaKtly  (Linn dialeKt😄) what I love about Roon: Just clicking on the name of the sitar player and the bio of Alois Gromer opens (born 1946 in Bavaria, studied sitar with master Imrat Khan, explaining his name change etc...)

Ofcourse all useless  information but I love it ❤️

Jens

 
Last edited by a moderator:

DavidHB

Well-Known Wammer
Wammer
Oct 9, 2018
2,584
1,673
148
Isle of Wight, UK
AKA
David
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I appreciate the op has issues, however I can assure you Naim are having some big issues of their own. 
Welcome to the forum, and thanks for your helpful and informed input.

There are two realities that both manufacturers and users of streamers (of whatever brand) have to grapple with. The first is that, particularly where control software is concerned, there is a vast range of use cases and an equally wide range of expectations. People who moan that this or that software app is bad  or useless need to be clear about (1) what their expectations are, (2) why those expectations are reasonable and (3) the specific way in which the software in question fails to meet those expectations. All too often, criticisms of software fail to meet those necessary requirements.

The second point is that streaming has not had that much time to develop. We are probably at the stage that motoring was in in the 1920s. Things mostly work, most of the time,  but some understanding of the technology and a self-help capability (not to mention a bit of patience) can come in very handy. The point of many of our responses to the OP is that it is self-defeating to give up too soon. After all, we're all here to help.

David

 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: JensA and Quasimodo

grommeteer

Newbie
Wammer
Oct 9, 2018
34
32
23
Kiel Germany
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
We are probably at the stage that motoring was in in the 1920s. Things mostly work, most of the time,  but some understanding of the technology and a self-help capability (not to mention a bit of patience) can come in very handy. the point of many of our responses to the OP is that it is self-defeating to give up too soon. After all, we're all here to help.
You know, I actually said the exact same thing to a friend a few days ago. It made me cringe to think that I used to drive a 1985 VW Polo that would cut out at a red light when it wasn’t fully warmed up. 65 years of auto-evolution and still not perfect. My dad‘s 1974 Mercedes otoh was extremely reliable. I just hope Linn are more like Mercedes than VW. 

 

StingRay

Legend Wammer
Wammer
Apr 27, 2016
9,877
5,218
148
Suffolk, UK
AKA
Ray
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Welcome to the forum, and thanks for your helpful and informed input.

There are two realities that both manufacturers and users of streamers (of whatever brand) have to grapple with. The first is that, particularly where control software is concerned, there is a vast range of use cases and an equally wide range of expectations. People who moan that this or that software app is bad  or useless need to be clear about (1) what their expectations are, (2) why those expectations are reasonable and (3) the specific way in which the software in question fails to meet those expectations. All too often, criticisms of software fail to meet those necessary requirements.

The second point is that streaming has not had that much time to develop. We are probably at the stage that motoring was in in the 1920s. Things mostly work, most of the time,  but some understanding of the technology and a self-help capability (not to mention a bit of patience) can come in very handy. the point of many of our responses to the OP is that it is self-defeating to give up too soon. After all, we're all here to help.

David
That’s why I went with the Bluesound Node 2, there seemed to be very few issues reported by users. Once it is set up which quite straight forward you just play the music. You may get the odd error message but it is very rare about once a month if that. Even then it just one song, just reselect and it’s fine. 

I think streaming is much more advanced than cars in the 1920s, it is more like 2000s.

Problems can occur because of the internet. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

kelly200269

Wammer
Wammer
Dec 10, 2015
678
585
113
Leyland, Lancashire
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I've had many months free this year, thanks to Deezer, QoBuz and Tidal offers. I'm now on a Tidal offer of £6 for 90 days,
Is this something to boast about? Artists need paying and need some income, especially in this COVID-era where touring income has dried-up.

Personally, I think we should support our artists by paying. Music is everything. The kit we choose to play it on are just tools.

 

StingRay

Legend Wammer
Wammer
Apr 27, 2016
9,877
5,218
148
Suffolk, UK
AKA
Ray
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Is this something to boast about? Artists need paying and need some income, especially in this COVID-era where touring income has dried-up.

Personally, I think we should support our artists by paying. Music is everything. The kit we choose to play it on are just tools.
It does not make any difference to the artists because they are paid by the tracks that you play. I was not boasting just saying. I play many tracks probably over 2,000 per month. 

 

kelly200269

Wammer
Wammer
Dec 10, 2015
678
585
113
Leyland, Lancashire
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
It does not make any difference to the artists because they are paid by the tracks that you play. I was not boasting just saying. I play many tracks probably over 2,000 per month. 
But you should pay for that privilege. IMO.

Paying the streaming service a subscription makes sure it’s (hopefully) there next year, and the year after that.

I’m sorry to have to say this, but choosing not to pay for music is morally corrupt.

 

kelly200269

Wammer
Wammer
Dec 10, 2015
678
585
113
Leyland, Lancashire
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I did not say Ripped cds were free but as I have bought them in the past there is no expenditure. I only rip the odd album which is not on the streaming sites, I can plug that into my streamer.

i did seriously consider buying a used Linn streamer but was put off by the issues mentioned on this forum, so I bought some other brand which works very well.

Roon for my set up is of very little use, so is not worth it.

I never said I liked internet radio, you need to check why I said you can use it, I only use it occasionally as I prefer choosing my own music and yes it is usually whole albums.

why am I here, because all these posts come up on the WAM forum, some are interesting. This post is about changing from Linn to other brands.

Hope this clarifies. 
I have to say, that I agree with @JensA previous post. And so what if you can ‘buy a new streamer with £200’ that you may have ‘saved’ by not subscribing to Roon?

To be blunt, if you’ve taken some time to peruse the Linn price list, you’d have realised that Linn kit isn’t cheap. It’s owners are quite brand-loyal, and relatively wealthy.

Linn owners tend to have a certain ‘outlook’. For example, whilst no right-minded person would pass-over a genuine bargain, we tend to regard music subscription services as a bit like a utility - we pay it (if we choose to do so), and enjoy it for what it is, safe in the knowledge that artists all over the world will benefit from our attention.

As I’ve previously stated, choosing not to pay for music is morally corrupt, IMO. Perhaps the Linn forum isn’t for you @StingRay? Your system is not Linn-based, and I suspect that you may find yourself philosophically ‘at-odds’ with many of the members here. 

 
  • Like
Reactions: akamatsu and JensA

StingRay

Legend Wammer
Wammer
Apr 27, 2016
9,877
5,218
148
Suffolk, UK
AKA
Ray
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I have to say, that I agree with @JensA previous post. And so what if you can ‘buy a new streamer with £200’ that you may have ‘saved’ by not subscribing to Roon?

To be blunt, if you’ve taken some time to peruse the Linn price list, you’d have realised that Linn kit isn’t cheap. It’s owners are quite brand-loyal, and relatively wealthy.

Linn owners tend to have a certain ‘outlook’. For example, whilst no right-minded person would pass-over a genuine bargain, we tend to regard music subscription services as a bit like a utility - we pay it (if we choose to do so), and enjoy it for what it is, safe in the knowledge that artists all over the world will benefit from our attention.

As I’ve previously stated, choosing not to pay for music is morally corrupt, IMO. Perhaps the Linn forum isn’t for you @StingRay? Your system is not Linn-based, and I suspect that you may find yourself philosophically ‘at-odds’ with many of the members here. 
Who says I don’t pay for music. Not everyone is wealthy, many people are struggling this year, my income is well down. Who do you buy your music from? Why should I buy Roon? That won’t benefit any artists and it does nothing for me, I don’t need it. Much of the music I play the artists have past away. It is upto Tidal what to charge users what it wants, if it does want me to pay £6 then why keep offering me the deal? Yes I know for many rich people paying out £100s for music does not make any difference. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

DavidHB

Well-Known Wammer
Wammer
Oct 9, 2018
2,584
1,673
148
Isle of Wight, UK
AKA
David
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
It made me cringe to think that I used to drive a 1985 VW Polo that would cut out at a red light when it wasn’t fully warmed up. 65 years of auto-evolution and still not perfect. My dad‘s 1974 Mercedes otoh was extremely reliable. I just hope Linn are more like Mercedes than VW. 
It's not just about the kit, it's also about the ecosystem that supports it (or not as the case may be). I wonder whether the real issue with your Polo was not that it had a fault, but that the service agent did not have the skills and/or knowledge to identify and fix what was really wrong? So, when Stingray says

I think streaming is much more advanced than cars in the 1920s, it is more like 2000s.

Problems can occur because of the internet. 
he in fact makes my point for me.

I have seen many cases, on this forum and elsewhere, where equipment and/or software is blamed for problems that are really caused by failings in the network. The equipment and software is up to the job, but the infrastructure is not. In such circumstances, trying to allocate blame is typically a waste of time, because fixing the problem is likely to require input from a number of different stakeholders. Manufacturers know this. We have been seeing improvements in home networking, with AC standard wireless access points and mesh systems becoming more prevalent. At the same time, equipment manufacturers have tried to make their products more robust in less than ideal networking environments. Part of that is the provision of knowledge; Linndocs has much more comprehensive troubleshooting information than used to be the case. (A good example is the advice now offered on the infamous "Waiting for room" problem, which is found at https://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Troubleshooting#Kazoo_states_.22Waiting_for_Room.....22. )

David

 

Nestor Turton

Nestor Turton
Wammer
Jan 30, 2019
1,086
1,552
148
UK
AKA
Nestor
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
But you should pay for that privilege. IMO.

Paying the streaming service a subscription makes sure it’s (hopefully) there next year, and the year after that.

I’m sorry to have to say this, but choosing not to pay for music is morally corrupt.
Agree

I try to buy direct from the artist or through Bandcamp when I can in an attempt to support artists like the superb Judge Smith, a founding member of Van Der Graaf Generator, who now writes very interesting song stories. Judge isn't a millionaire and sends personal thank you messages when you buy his CDs. I like his music because he dares to be different and inventive. It is essential in my view to support artists like Judge. Yes you can listen to his music for free, but I am happy to pay: after all when I was working I got paid so it seems only fair. 

 

Paul_N

Newbie
New Wammer
Mar 26, 2020
21
24
23
3rd Rock fromthe Sun
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
You know, I actually said the exact same thing to a friend a few days ago. It made me cringe to think that I used to drive a 1985 VW Polo that would cut out at a red light when it wasn’t fully warmed up. 65 years of auto-evolution and still not perfect.

My dad‘s 1974 Mercedes otoh was extremely reliable

That was the good ole days when the engineers completely ruled the roost at Daimler Benz.  They built the cars to their high (perhaps unsurpassed) engineering standards and then sold them for cost plus.  Then in about the mid 80s to early 90s they chased volume (with the small 190 range coming out etc.) with the sales price needing to be similar to that of competitors so some of the (over-) engineering excellence was let go.  I've never owned a MB but I get the impression they're not as reliable now.

The only two people my family knew who had Mercedes in the 1970s were each successful owners/MDs of their companies - now kids in their 20s can often be seen driving them.
. I just hope Linn are more like Mercedes than VW. 
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DoomHammer

Newbie
Wammer
Nov 30, 2019
145
88
33
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
The problem is all of them can go the way of the dodo unless they embrace the fact that software rules the world and should be their core competency. Making great hardware is no longer enough when our cars are computers on wheels and our music players are computers that make sound.

 

Paulssurround

Space Explorer
Wammer
Oct 11, 2018
3,497
3,161
148
Vancouver
AKA
Paul
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I agree. Buy from the artists’ online stores. It just feels right. I’ve ordered from Marillion’s online store many times with shipment from the UK to the USA with no problem and a good price ex VAT. 
I’ve bought quite a few 5.1 discs from Burning Shed in the UK. Their service has been excellent.

‘Burning Shed is owned and run by the artists themselves, and is also home to groups such as Steve Wilson, and his remastered Progressive Rock albums from many famous groups, some of the most iconic albums of the era

https://burningshed.com/ 😊 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Upvote
Reactions: Nestor Turton

Nestor Turton

Nestor Turton
Wammer
Jan 30, 2019
1,086
1,552
148
UK
AKA
Nestor
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I’ve bought quite a few 5.1 discs from Burning Shed in the UK.
Burning Shed is excellent. I have bought a collection of King Crimson box sets and the reissues of Peter Hammill’s K Group recordings from them as well as many other albums. The Freak Emporium used to support many bands including the Ozric Tentacles, but alas they could not compete with the online giants and closed down. 

Burning Shed also does a great felt mat for your turntable - it works on the LP12 too. 

image.jpeg

i have also had great service from Muffin Music in Canada who supplied a wonderful bundle of Martha & the Muffins albums including their superb This Is The Ice Age album. As well as Secret City Records who support Basia Bulat. 
 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

morbius

Newbie
New Wammer
Jun 15, 2019
21
36
18
A few thoughts in reply to the OP.

I had a brief spell with Naim just a few years ago. They were unable to provide a power supply or power amp that didn’t spend most of its time buzzing or even growling at a level to be heard from meters away. After a couple of months the dealer took it all back in exchange for a Vitus (bliss). My brother’s first NDX2 was shipped with a faulty SMPS and his 252 was shipped with a misaligned balance control. I check out the Naim forum, and it’s not hard to find examples of how poor their quality can be (even at 500 series level).

On the tech side I think Linn are strong with streamer firmware support and its delivery platform but of course iOS Kazoo has design flaws that are too obvious even to enumerate, and it’s just baffling they have not been resolved (“play from here”, anyone?)

I was a proper Roon sceptic until I tried it for a few days. At times I can find it a bit busy, but even setting aside all the reviews/biogs, for me it’s just miles ahead of Kazoo/Kinsky/Linn. And now that I subscribe to QoBuz, Kazoo looks even more primitive by comparison.

I would not say I am committed to Linn in terms of where I go next beyond my KDS/3, i.e wait for a KDS/4 or switch brand, but in the meantime I think Linn still has some selling points, albeit not in the control point domain.

 
  • Like
Reactions: MickC

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
108,109
Messages
2,288,936
Members
69,163
Latest member
DevonRob