• To directly access the forum, ensure your bookmark url includes /forum.

Music Snobs

Biscuit

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 19, 2005
6,491
8
0
Cambs, , United King
A completely ridiculess thread on HFC has got me really pissed off. I fucking hate it when supposed fans of any genre try to shit on respected classics simply because they are far to well known to be 'cool' anymore. DJ Shadow's Entroducing can't be classic because Double Dee and Steinski made a cut and paste trio of recordings using tape machines, and Coldcut did a remix for Eric B and Rakim?

Fuck you you pretentious twat. At least if you are going to try and say Shadow is rubbish you could at least think up some examples of producers who could actually do it better (and there are plenty of them).

That is all
wub.png
:cool:

 

JamPal

Content Provider
Wammer
Jul 19, 2005
32,264
552
173
Sussex, West Side
AKA
James
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
As mentioned over there... woooowww matey..

Dj Shadow is good, fer sheerr. but the dude disagrees. Man you shot him down,

WTF Russ?

 

Biscuit

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 19, 2005
6,491
8
0
Cambs, , United King
I'n not even really a big DJ Shadow fan, but I recognise an ignorant post when I see one. I've been a huge fan of hip hop since I was 11, taping Westwood shows, saving pocket money for cds and vinyl, and someone coming along and trying to poo poo what all but the most hardcore of rap fans would say was a classic really touched a nerve.

He jumped all over the hifi choice article just to masage his ego that he knows more 'hip hop' than the jounalist

 
G

Guest

Guest
TBH i have the entroducing album, it's ok, but nothing great, but thats just my taste.

I moved the offending thread to your views, as it's less about the music, than a critique of the writer in question
biggrin.png


 

Biscuit

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 19, 2005
6,491
8
0
Cambs, , United King
I don't mind the fact that people don't like the album, its not to everybody's tastes, thats fine. The thing that annoyed me is that he completely rinsed the jounalist for no reason at all. Entroducing is an absolutely great place to start listening to hiphop, Shadow is acceptable middle class music, and if it introduces more people to what is a far deeper genre than most people give it credit for, that is great IMO.

 
G

Guest

Guest
I agree with you biscuit, i never made it clear, posts like the ones you mentioned annoy me too, think the chap should have asked what folks thought, rather than tell it as it is, but perhaps he is 14

 

Testure

Clean gloves hide dirty hands
Wammer Plus
Jul 21, 2005
6,118
59
128
West London/ Watford
AKA
Testy
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
Not worth getting wound up about, anyway what does he know about music, he just infered that Kraftwerk had run out of ideas by listening to Minimum Maximum!!

Chill with a beer and dream of shinny63DP :dude:

 

Biscuit

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 19, 2005
6,491
8
0
Cambs, , United King
Testure wrote:

Chill with a beer and dream of shinny63DP :dude:
think I will do just that.

I'm normally extremely passive, but when my temper goes..........
shock.gif.7732780fe7e208b945ce79ca96402fca.gif
Only happened once in real life, but don't want it to happen again, so its best if my energies get diverted into a forum
wink.png
cool.gif.9d6c72c555b38e519336a6d9b55ca875.gif


 

JamPal

Content Provider
Wammer
Jul 19, 2005
32,264
552
173
Sussex, West Side
AKA
James
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Extra kudos for Biccy. The powers of a bit of music and an ale or two are not to be sniffed at.

just a thought but wheres SuperCapMan these days?

 
1

155

Guest
Biscuit wrote:

well I chilled out and invited the guy over to the wigwam, how's that for diplomatic
biggrin.png
And I'm here, so shall we continue the discussion?

155

 

JamPal

Content Provider
Wammer
Jul 19, 2005
32,264
552
173
Sussex, West Side
AKA
James
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
155 wrote:

Biscuit wrote:
well I chilled out and invited the guy over to the wigwam, how's that for diplomatic
biggrin.png
And I'm here, so shall we continue the discussion?

155
Welcome along matey. I do hope that you and biccy can get along. It;s a friendly place really.

be seeing you,

James.

 

Biscuit

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 19, 2005
6,491
8
0
Cambs, , United King
Ok, DJ Shadow's album is an important step in the development of hiphop? Difficult question, there is no doubt that this middle class white dude opened up the genre for exploration by a whole new group of people. Did this have a positive effect on hiphop (spawned the hellish Aesop Rock/El-P types that typify indie hiphop of the present day) is a different matter.

Sure, DD and Steinski were exactly the same type of person, but did they have the same impact on the music for the general public - NO! There are many other white guys who had a big impact on hiphop - Paul C had the most slamming drum tracks ever - period, 3rd Bass were dope, and continued as quite prominent A&R men in the industry, Bob James?!? (was he white?). Think of how many DJ Shadow imitators there are these days, then think how many people still make pause tapes......

Coldcut, they did the Eric B and Rakim joint, the 70 minutes of Madness mix, made a few pants albums and started Ninja Tune, can't see how they did more for hip hop than DJ Shadow? You can school me on these guys because I don't know too much about them, but that should tell you something........

 
1

155

Guest
Biscuit wrote:

I'n not even really a big DJ Shadow fan, but I recognise an ignorant post when I see one. I've been a huge fan of hip hop since I was 11, taping Westwood shows, saving pocket money for cds and vinyl, and someone coming along and trying to poo poo what all but the most hardcore of rap fans would say was a classic really touched a nerve.He jumped all over the hifi choice article just to masage his ego that he knows more 'hip hop' than the jounalist
I think it only fair that I answer some of the points that have been made here, in my absence. Firstly I think it would be fair to say that the original post did not offer a critique of DJ Shadow's work, rather the fact that the journalist had written a piece which clearly attributed to that album an importance which, quite frankly, is laughable, and indicates that he probably doesn't listen toHip Hop/Rap/Electro-Funk etc.

Acynic might think that the inclusion of the album, in a forum which (as Biscuit rightly pointed out) does not often include or support Hip Hop - I would say (possibly more contentiously - this could be widened to include a great deal of soul/funk/jazz/reggae etc) -is possibly related to the recent release of a 'Special Edition' of the album with out takes and extra tracks?

It's an interesting album, but the point was does it represent a "musical milestone"? If it does, in what genre? It was for this reason that I mentioned Double Dee and Steinski, who were, of course responsible for the original 'Lessons 1,2 and 3', and Steinski who went on to make 'The Motorcade Sped On'. As Biscuit acknowledges, the 'Lessons' are even more remarkable when you consider that they were put together without the help of modern computer technology - yet they still stand as timeless examples of 'cut and paste'. It is also worth recognising the fact that Shadow has been involved in attempting to recreate 'live' some of the 'Lessons', so he clearly recognises that he is part of a tradition that stretches back. It might also be worth mentioning the work of the legendary Latin Rascals and even Ben Liebrand's 'Mastermixes'as otherprecursors to Shadow's work. Set against this context, the claim made that his album represented a "musical milestone" just doesn't hold up.

I think the fact that the writer of the piece makes no attempt to place the record within a wider context, either 'specifically Hip Hop' or otherwise indicates that the journalist knows little about Hip Hop, most of the comments in the articleappear to be derived from the notes of the Deluxe album.Therefore I still regard my criticism as valid.

Now, regarding your love of Hip Hop. I share that. I have done since I was about 10 -and I'm in my early thirties now. I listened to Westwood, and Mike 'The Boss' Allen in London on Capital Radio during the early to mid 1980's. I still have the tapes of the shows, and can still remember hearing DJ Cheese and Word Of Mouth doing their live set. I am still buying records, hunting down the ones that as a youing kid I just didn't have the money to buy (this morning I finally received my copies of 'Techno City', Cybotron and 'Kights Of The Turntables', The Dynamic Duo Featuring ShaQuan and finally, 'Itchiban Scratch' Chris 'The Glove' Taylor.

So it is quite likely Biscuit that we have a great deal in common, except our method and tone of criticism.

155

155

 

Biscuit

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 19, 2005
6,491
8
0
Cambs, , United King
I think DJ Shadow turned sampled music into a more acceptable thing in the eyes of the public. Maybe he did not do this by being the greatest ever behind an SP1200 or MPC, but he still did it. Therefore for me, he is a milestone.

 

Biscuit

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 19, 2005
6,491
8
0
Cambs, , United King
DJ Riz was the greatest DJ I ever heard, not technically, but the fact that he played so much dope music on the Westwood shows. '94 Westwood was awesome.

Currently listening to Stunts, Blunts and Hiphop
cool.gif.9d6c72c555b38e519336a6d9b55ca875.gif


Fav producers:

Diamond D

Dr Dre

Premier

Pete Rock

Beatnuts

PS you started listening to Westwood quite a few years before me, I was too young for the majority of the Capital FM Dance Shows, started listening in about '91. Should probably bow to your knowledge of hiphop then, after all, its all about learning from your elders
tongue.png
:D

 
1

155

Guest
Testure wrote:

Not worth getting wound up about, anyway what does he know about music, he just infered that Kraftwerk had run out of ideas by listening to Minimum Maximum!!Chill with a beer and dream of shinny63DP :dude:
AgainI will answer the point. I simply stated that 'Minimum Maximum' might be taken as a sign that Kraftwerk had run out of ideas, or (to take it further), that electronicmusic in general had 'caught up' with them.Look at thelast few albums they have released, 'The Mix' - although interesting it is nothing more than a remix album of varying success, followed byanalbum built around the concept of the 'Tour De France' - an album which should have been completed in place of 'Electric Cafe'.

But since then?

Furthermoreit could be argued that'Minimum Maxmum' is nothing more than the concept of a remix album taken live -thatalbum primarily being 'The Mix'.

There is no denying the influence of Kraftwerk, and on this particular thread it is quite interesting to note their influence on Hip Hop and Electro Funk in particular - especially through the work of Afrika Bambaataa and Soul Sonic Force, Arthur Baker and John Robie. 'Number's runs through most of the early 1980'sWest Coast Hip Hop produced by the World Class Wreckin' Cru, The Unknown DJ and The Egyptian Lover.But unfortunately they have yet, in my opinion, to produce anything that matches the originality of 'Computer World', 'Trans Europe Express' or 'Electric Cafe'.

155

 

Forum statistics

Threads
108,033
Messages
2,287,357
Members
69,146
Latest member
Kinchitshaw