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Need Help Streaming to Onkyo P3000r

Vaprak001

Wammer
Wammer
Jan 15, 2014
95
7
28
Dubai
AKA
Jas
Hi All,

Thanks to advice from members I bought a pair of KEF LS50's to partner with my new Onkyo P3000/M5000 combination. I've been very happy with the sound despite relying on an Onkyo dvd player as the source whilst getting my planned digital streaming set up. Unfortunately, being new to this I seem to have hit a series of snags!

Firstly, the P3000r, despite having an inbuilt DAC doesn't seem to play stick or Hard drive usb directly (and it took two weeks finding an adaptor suitable for the USB type B input in the back of the back of the pre)! :(

Next, I tried connecting my awesome new PC. Not so awesome is Onkyo's driver selection which doesn't include Windows 8 (an OS which I am finding a real :td: by the way). Maybe this is just as well as the PC has so many fans it sounds a bit like the helicopter scene from Apocalype Now!

Finally, I installed the Onko Hi-res app onto the wifes Ipad and managed (after quite some effort) to get Linn music's sample hi-res Flac file onto it. Trouble was I could only manage to get it to play back on the Ipad, not the amp! Is there a usb type b issue here? Also the bulk of my music is normal-res WMV format which the Ipad won't recognise so this was never going to be a permenant fix. Why don't Onkyo release an Adroid app!?

So I may just have run out of options unless someone out there has an idea? I'm not really in a position for substantial purchase right now so want to avoid something like the the Onkyo 4070 or Pioneer N50 streamers, and I hate wasting money on temporary fixes ending up with piles of legacy stuff that I'm too lazy to sell and too anal to throw away. I really want to take advantage of the Onkyo's dual 192khz/32 bit DAC's but I'm struggling to see how best to do it!

Any help appreciated...thanks

 

vacdac

Wammer
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Jul 19, 2011
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Chris
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Firstly a USB B type connector on the rear of DAC type devices eg processors/streamers etc will generally be for hooking up a laptop to output digital audio from that.

If your processor/streamer supports direct connection of hard drives, these will be on USB type A sockets.

If I'm understanding where you are currently up to/what you've tried to do so far, I'm not sure what you are trying will work. :? My guess is that what may be happening here is that the music is playing back on your i-pad it is because you haven't yet done the network setup stuff your your Onkyo pre & it is not being seen as a UPnP/DLNA device on your network.

Does your Onkyo Pre actually support UPnP/DLNA streaming over a network even??? If so this will probably be the way forward. Depending on what hardware you already have to allow this of c. Many of us on here use a NAS or dedicated server to accomplish this due to the convenience of being independent of lappys/P.C.'s & having a much lower 'energy footprint. Quite a few peeps are running Rasberry Pi type devices too, although there is a small learning curve here re setup/configuration. You can simply use a Laptop/PC though whilst you work out if streaming is for you, you will need to install UPnP/DLNA server S/W on your 'pooter'

I've just had a quick squiz @ Ed Selleys' review >>> .http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/amplifiers/onkyo-m-3000r-and-m-5000r-940283/review. whilst the digi inputs, including the USB 'un are mentioned, any capabilities as a networked streamer are not :nup: :(

A Synology DS series NAS eg DS213j/213/214 would do what you seem to want as it can work as a mooozic streamer/internet radio player in its own right & will output 'Bit Perfect' digital audio via one of its rear USB sockets & can be controlled with a tablet/smartphone to 'push' content to it.

For now tho' ......simply to enable playing mooozic content from your pooter to the Onkyo Pre-amp/DAC you will need to use a USB A to B cable* from your pooter (*Printer type cable) or you could even use a USB to SPdif convertor & instead use one of the Onkyos SPdif inputs

These work a treat @ up to 24bit/96khz outputting optical/Toslink SPdif & cost peanuts.>>>
41TWzsARCrL._AA160_.jpg
.http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=Delock%20USB%20to%20SPdif.

P.S.

Synology DS series NAS enclosures are pretty much 'dead silent. :^ :cool: . They have a v low 'energy footprint' & will allow 24/7 streaming entirely independent of having laptops/pooters on. You can even schedule daily power on/off schedules, although I prefer 'access on demand' 24/7. I have mine sited in my bedroom, where I use it as a networked streamer/player in its own right into my second system which is based around an Audio-gd NFB12.1 DAC/Pre & Adam F5 active monitors:love:. As noted it is sited in my bedroom & has never yet disturbed me when trying to sleep, it's pretty much dead silent*(*This is with 2X WD Red 3TB drives) You can always add a better streamer/DAC later & then take advantage of being able to use the Synology NAS as an independent streamer in a second Zone. I use a Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 in my main system & this is very capable as a streamer with little need to consider DAC upgrades.

 

Vaprak001

Wammer
Wammer
Jan 15, 2014
95
7
28
Dubai
AKA
Jas
Thanks for such a detailed response Vacdac. I thought I may have been attempting the impossible! :doh:

I'll look into the Synology NAS but I'm assuming I'll still need a PC of some sort to select and deliver the music to the amp. If I go the NAS/PC route my options may be limited here in Dubai though - product ranges and availability are scant and online imports are not always straight forward.

I've just remembered I have a Sony SMP-S200 i can use for the meantime with std res WMA, but it won't do Flac or other lossless. If I can bear to wait out my burning Hi-res curiosity a bit longer maybe its best I save up and wait for a streamer. I'd certainly put the CA Stream Magic 6 on the potential list - would you tell me why you chose this and what you put it up against when choosing? In your opinion how would it compete against the others I'd be looking at, namely the (quite pricey but matching) Onkyo T4070 or Pioneer N-50? I'd love to consider the Sony HAP-Z1ES but can it really be 5 times better than the Pioneer!

Cheers

 

vacdac

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Jul 19, 2011
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Chris
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  1. No
Hi Fella,

Firstly you wouldn't also need a PC running at all. Once set up a Synology DS NAS can be controlled using a smartphone/tablet running controller Apps.

You would connect the Synology NAS from one of its rear USB sockets to the USB type B digital input socket on your ONKYO pre-amp*(All you would need is a standard USB A to B printer type cable, just summat adequately specced/made/shielded/decent connectors etc. You should find summat decent enough for £5 to £10:^) You can also use a laptop/PC as a control point but Android or i-OS/Apple devices tend to be much less clunky than doing this through a web browser on your PC IME.

When I upgraded to the C.A. SM6 early last year I had already been streaming using SBT's in my main & second systems for approx 2 & a half yrs. At the time I was using a Netgear ReadyNAS Duo NAS as my server & latterly already started using Tablets/smartphones as controllers.

My main point of comparison on buying the C.A. SM6 were the SBT + Musical Fidelity M1 DAC combo that I had used up to that point in my main rig. In the second system I used the SBT fed thru a C.A. Dac Magic Azur & also thru its analogue outs.

More recently my second system has changed radically & here is where I use the Synology NAS as I proposed to you. It feeds digital audio via USB into the USB input of an Audio-gd NFB 12.1 DAC/Pre-amp/headphone amp feeding Adam F5 active monitors. The Synology NAS as a streamer in its own right sounds identical streaming the same material into the NFB 12.1 as the SBT does fed into this same DAC

I've no idea how good the Onkyo streamer is TBH, but I'd expect it to be decent. The Pioneer is a good product but the SM6 has better connectivity/features overall & I would think better for SQ most likely as it has raised the bar fairly high as a complete & v capable one box solution at its price point. The SM6 seems to be steadily gaining in positive feedback on here & seems generally well regarded. Mine is certainly a substantial improvement over the SBT/M1 DAC I was previously using. :stereo:

 

gintonic

Noise, distortion & faff
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Apr 25, 2012
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simon
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Just had a quick look in the Onkyo P3000r manual and its not clear at all whether it is UPnP/DLNA compatible - what is clear is that you need Onkyo software on a PC and a USB cable to connect the PC to the Onkyo for music playback via the Onkyo.

I notice there is an Onkyo dock for Apple devices, and from the website it looks like it might stream from an iTunes library on a PC to the dock, and into the pre-amp.

 

vacdac

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 19, 2011
11,536
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143
Manchester
AKA
Chris
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Just had a quick look in the Onkyo P3000r manual and its not clear at all whether it is UPnP/DLNA compatible - what is clear is that you need Onkyo software on a PC and a USB cable to connect the PC to the Onkyo for music playback via the Onkyo. I notice there is an Onkyo dock for Apple devices, and from the website it looks like it might stream from an iTunes library on a PC to the dock, and into the pre-amp.
It sounds like it is just windoze drivers which should be down loadable from Onkyo's site are necessary here Simon. Rather than any bespoke player S/W from Onkyo. Pretty much any music player on the Windows platform will work fine outputting digital audio to the Onkyo. The trouble seems to be that as yet Onkyo have not yet rolled out drivers for Windows 8.

In Ed Selleys review I linked to earlier he does mention hooking up a PC. >>

It almost goes without saying that the P-3000R proves totally silent in use, providing a unobtrusive backdrop to performances. The digital inputs of the P-3000R do, if anything, have a greater personality. The digital board of the Onkyo is astonishingly insightful and able to extract incredible detail from recordings. The pairing will not flatter poor recordings, however. They're happier with the compressed version of a good recording than the lossless version of a poor one.

These traits extend to the USB input which – once the connected PC has been given the latest USB drivers available – work seamlessly and silently. The performance over USB is identical to the more conventional digital inputs.
To the OP......Have you checked to see if Onkyo have a separate download site with links to more up to date driver releases. I've come across some instances of these not always being on the mfrs main site when first rolled out. My own Alva Nanoface USB Audio interface springs to mind as an example of this.

 

Vaprak001

Wammer
Wammer
Jan 15, 2014
95
7
28
Dubai
AKA
Jas
Thanks for the help guys but damn it, I think I'll just buy either a new dedicated laptop running Windows 7 (which was much better than 8 anyway) or a streamer! It'll have to wait until April because of cash-flow but is the better long-term option, especially when you mentioned the improved SQ from your CA Vacdac! I did follow your instructions and looked up Onkyo windows 8 drivers from non-onkyo sites and I even found one but the site looked incredibly dodgy!

In the meantime I'll just have to make do unless I can get my Samsung Galaxy S4 mini to fix the problem? I've just read they're Flac compatible. Now I'm sure I won't be able to plug the phone directly into the back of the amp via USB and play (Phone won't have the Onkyo driver installed/ It'd didn't work with the Ipad like this/ I'm not sure they even make the cable I would need for this), but there are 3.5mm headphone jack to Optical audio (TOSLink) cables available. My instincts are telling me whilst this may technically work, the sound may be pants. Have you guys used this type of cable with any success?

Cheers

 

vacdac

Wammer
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Jul 19, 2011
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Chris
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Hi Vaprak001.........Aaah I was rather suggesting that perhaps Onkyo themselves may have a separate site for more up to date Drivers. I'd agree in keeping anything that looks dodgy from 'third party' sites at arms length & not downloading owt that looks even moderately suspect of c. With my Alva Nanoface the up to date drivers were initially released on a separate dedicated site, that was still actually a bona fide site for Alva.

As a simple fix for now, that doesn't involve upgrading your laptop & should allow you to hook up your pooter to your Onkyo Pre you could try one of these*(*I have one myself as do a few peeps on here. They work extremely well & are cheap as chips @ only £10-55 delivered here in the UK)>>>
41TWzsARCrL._SX385_.jpg
.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Delock-USB-Sound-SPDIF-Adapter/dp/B0084CGO88/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1392289777&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=delock+USB+to+SPdif.

I discuss the full functionality of this device in this post from last night in another thread.>>>.http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?101332-Openpeak-02-Joggler-excellent-alternative-to-Squeezebox-touch&p=1783754&viewfull=1#post1783754.

This would allow you to output SPdif/Optical via Toslink into your Onkyo Pre-amp/DAC. The Delock outputs SPdif/Optical on a combined mini Toslink/3.5mm stereo audio output. You can get mini Toslink adaptors that enable the use of a standard sized Toslink/Optical cable. The adaptors are widely available cheaply & often actually come bundled with budget priced optical cables

31bfZ-iZlDL._AA160_.jpg
.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Optical-Toslink-Plug-3-5mm-Adapter/dp/B003PU2Z1O/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1392290563&sr=1-1&keywords=mini+toslink+adapter.

31HOJov6QoL._AA160_.jpg
.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cable-Tex-TosLink-Optical-Adapter-Adaptor/dp/B003WUHKA8/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1392290640&sr=1-2&keywords=mini+toslink+adapter.

Or here is a useful 3m length one that has a pucka 3.5mm/mini connector at one end & normal full size on t'other. >>
51ye8YjfBHL._SL1000_.jpg
XO Digital Mini-Toslink to Optical Cable 3m / 3 Metre Premium Install Series

.http://www.amazon.co.uk/XO-Digital-Mini-Toslink-Optical-Premium/dp/B00CIEYOMQ/ref=sr_1_4?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1392290886&sr=1-4&keywords=mini+toslink+adapter. This 'un looks to be well made & offers good value.

I'd go with getting an adaptor if you already have a standard Toslink cable spare that is a suitable length. :^ If not then summat like the one I just linked to would be ideal, I've used the adaptors myself in the past with decent quality Toslink optical cable with no issues re SQ.

 

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