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Linn Owners

New Klimax System Hub (NG Klimax DSM Hub)

akamatsu

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Oct 9, 2018
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Point Roberts, WA (Vancouver)
AKA
Michael
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
I thought it might be useful to start a new thread dedicated to the new Klimax System Hub (KSH), for those of us with Exakt systems. There are a few who have ordered, and a few more planning on ordering.

For me, I will get one. But due to recent report from the dealer, the question is now "when?" I was going to order right away. But now, it doesn't quite have the urgency that it did before. I decided that I need to listen for myself before spending $19500 minus trade-in. Also, I haven't read any reports of the KSH with Klimax LP12 and Katalyst Akubariks. The dealer will set up this demo and report to me. He did offer to post the KDSM to me for loan, but I'm not sure I want to do this. If I hear it in my house with my system, going back to the AEDSM for up to 12 weeks may be too painful.

Had the dealer reported a "Wow!" difference between the AEDSM and the KSH, I would anxiously awaiting the Urika II test, and be ordering contingent on that result. The feedback was of a more subtle improvement. Definitely more musical, but I guess at this level most improvements can be described as subtle. But subtle can improve music (not hifi) considerably.

So I have calmed down a bit, and will proceed with less reckless abandon.

 

sunbeamgls

Wammer
Wammer Plus
Mar 19, 2011
4,967
1,998
193
North Wales
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
I thought it might be useful to start a new thread dedicated to the new Klimax System Hub (KSH), for those of us with Exakt systems. There are a few who have ordered, and a few more planning on ordering.

For me, I will get one. But due to recent report from the dealer, the question is now "when?" I was going to order right away. But now, it doesn't quite have the urgency that it did before. I decided that I need to listen for myself before spending $19500 minus trade-in. Also, I haven't read any reports of the KSH with Klimax LP12 and Katalyst Akubariks. The dealer will set up this demo and report to me. He did offer to post the KDSM to me for loan, but I'm not sure I want to do this. If I hear it in my house with my system, going back to the AEDSM for up to 12 weeks may be too painful.

Had the dealer reported a "Wow!" difference between the AEDSM and the KSH, I would anxiously awaiting the Urika II test, and be ordering contingent on that result. The feedback was of a more subtle improvement. Definitely more musical, but I guess at this level most improvements can be described as subtle. But subtle can improve music (not hifi) considerably.

So I have calmed down a bit, and will proceed with less reckless abandon.
I expect NR Watson will have a report soon.

Klimax LP12

Urika II

350 Exakt Katalyst

 
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Dasher

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Jun 7, 2019
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  1. No
I'm not even considering it. The investment step from ASH to NGKSH is, to me, beyond comprehension - there is the law of diminishing returns , and then there is this one! Others may have been waiting for this moment and for them the cost may be what they expected - and their choice will be different.

I didn't go ASH to  (normal) KSH for 3  reasons: One-  all my other stuff is in Akurate boxes (and that includes my phono stage); Two: There was less connectivity available from the KSH and Three: If there was a sonic difference then my ears were really struggling to  pick it up. Given that the new one makes no change to (one) above, little change to (two) above and maybe a change to (three) (bit I may not hear it - don't know, not tried yet)) - and it adds several £K to the cost to change element then I can safely say that it isn't going to happen.

The pricing of the NGKDSM doesn't surprise me - I think that it is a little high but Linn's flagship (especially AV) always has been. It is the modern equivalent of my Kisto and in its day my Kisto was very expensive. It also brings new technology to the table - which is seldom cheap. The pricing of the "hub" is a different matter. I always thought that with  the original one, one was paying for a lot of milled out waste - now it appears that it's possible to pay for even more.

I will give one a listen at some point  - but doubt that I'll be persuaded.

 

Pennypacker

d^_^b
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Oct 10, 2018
609
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Netherlands
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
  2. No
I will give one a listen at some point  - but doubt that I'll be persuaded.
Well if the hype is real and I assume it is, it’s probably better not to listen.

When I listened to my S/H Keltiks 2 weeks ago at the sellers place, he also had a pair of 350a for sale in the same room. I asked for a quick dem and he quickly set  them up with KDSM and KEAB with Katalyst on passthrough. Within 2 minutes my mind begun calculating what the resale value of my kit was vs the price of the stuff I was listening to..

In the forth minute I kindly asked him to turn the music of albeit with a smile on my face. 😅

 

Dasher

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Jun 7, 2019
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Well if the hype is real and I assume it is, it’s probably better not to listen.

When I listened to my S/H Keltiks 2 weeks ago at the sellers place, he also had a pair of 350a for sale in the same room. I asked for a quick dem and he quickly set  them up with KDSM and KEAB with Katalyst on passthrough. Within 2 minutes my mind begun calculating what the resale value of my kit was vs the price of the stuff I was listening to..

In the forth minute I kindly asked him to turn the music of albeit with a smile on my face. 😅
Oh I'm sure that you're  right!

I have no doubt that Organik brings something extra but I'm happy with my lot ...for now anyway!

 

akamatsu

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Wammer Plus
Oct 9, 2018
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Point Roberts, WA (Vancouver)
AKA
Michael
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
Oh I'm sure that you're  right!

I have no doubt that Organik brings something extra but I'm happy with my lot ...for now anyway!
If it makes you feel better, even though you probably already feel good, I was listening last night and said to myself, "One would have to be out of their mind to feel any need to improve on this."

So your point is well taken. :D

 

Nrwatson

Linn Lover
Wammer
Feb 8, 2017
547
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AKA
Neale Watson
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
If it makes you feel better, even though you probably already feel good, I was listening last night and said to myself, "One would have to be out of their mind to feel any need to improve on this."

So your point is well taken. :D
Until you hear an improvement then difficult to go back the sensible ones when they reach their nirvana don’t join forums like this and stop buying Hi-Fi magazines and then just listen to their music 

 

Paulssurround

Space Explorer
Wammer
Oct 11, 2018
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AKA
Paul
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I thought it might be useful to start a new thread dedicated to the new Klimax System Hub (KSH), for those of us with Exakt systems. There are a few who have ordered, and a few more planning on ordering.

For me, I will get one. But due to recent report from the dealer, the question is now "when?" I was going to order right away. But now, it doesn't quite have the urgency that it did before. I decided that I need to listen for myself before spending $19500 minus trade-in. Also, I haven't read any reports of the KSH with Klimax LP12 and Katalyst Akubariks. The dealer will set up this demo and report to me. He did offer to post the KDSM to me for loan, but I'm not sure I want to do this. If I hear it in my house with my system, going back to the AEDSM for up to 12 weeks may be too painful.

Had the dealer reported a "Wow!" difference between the AEDSM and the KSH, I would anxiously awaiting the Urika II test, and be ordering contingent on that result. The feedback was of a more subtle improvement. Definitely more musical, but I guess at this level most improvements can be described as subtle. But subtle can improve music (not hifi) considerably.

So I have calmed down a bit, and will proceed with less reckless abandon.
When I heard the new Klimax DSM, I was absolutely astonished at the improvements in sound quality, and better than anything I had heard before.

‘It was transformational and revolutionary. It was definitely not subtle.

‘When I got home and fired up my Akurate Hub and Katalyst Akubariks, I was very disappointed in my system, as the sound stage seemed so small in comparison. I seriously wondered what had happened to the music. 

‘However, the next day, I played my system again, cranked it up,  and I was very happy with my own system again. I somehow made a mental shift to realize that my system sounds fantastic, but the Klimax sounds even better

I loved the new Klimax, but realistically it is not a likely purchase at the moment for me

I'm not even considering it. The investment step from ASH to NGKSH is, to me, beyond comprehension - there is the law of diminishing returns , and then there is this one! Others may have been waiting for this moment and for them the cost may be what they expected - and their choice will be different.

I didn't go ASH to  (normal) KSH for 3  reasons: One-  all my other stuff is in Akurate boxes (and that includes my phono stage); Two: There was less connectivity available from the KSH and Three: If there was a sonic difference then my ears were really struggling to  pick it up. Given that the new one makes no change to (one) above, little change to (two) above and maybe a change to (three) (bit I may not hear it - don't know, not tried yet)) - and it adds several £K to the cost to change element then I can safely say that it isn't going to happen.

The pricing of the NGKDSM doesn't surprise me - I think that it is a little high but Linn's flagship (especially AV) always has been. It is the modern equivalent of my Kisto and in its day my Kisto was very expensive. It also brings new technology to the table - which is seldom cheap. The pricing of the "hub" is a different matter. I always thought that with  the original one, one was paying for a lot of milled out waste - now it appears that it's possible to pay for even more.

I will give one a listen at some point  - but doubt that I'll be persuaded.
I think it is worth your while to listen, and know what is possible for music reproduction.

Given that you are a musician, you may appreciate the musical  presentation that the new Klimax brings to the party. 

I do believe you will be staggered
 

Until you hear an improvement then difficult to go back the sensible ones when they reach their nirvana don’t join forums like this and stop buying Hi-Fi magazines and then just listen to their music 
Your new Klimax DSM should be showing up any day now?  😊

 
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jonbsbd

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Wammer
Oct 15, 2020
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When I heard the new Klimax DSM, I was absolutely astonished at the improvements in sound quality, and better than anything I had heard before.
I only know @Paulssurround from reading his interesting posts on this forum, but he seems to be someone who spends a lot of time 'eeking' out the very least dregs of quality from the system he has (and sharing them with us, thanks). Searching through small incremental steps. This is quite some recommendation I would suggest. I agree with you @PaulssurroundI have 'accepted' my Selekt again, but in my heart now I know what I really want!!

 
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Dasher

Wammer
Wammer
Jun 7, 2019
810
821
98
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I do believe you will be staggered
For the NGKDSM I think that you are possibly correct - all the indications are that it is not a subtle change - and will be nice to know what is possible. For the hub I'm not so sure - and I also find it visually unattractive (when paired with other boxes) - as a single box in a 350a exact system, in the right setting, it probably looks great!

 

Dasher

Wammer
Wammer
Jun 7, 2019
810
821
98
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Searching through small incremental steps.
I agree,  Paul has an ability to bring about pin point refinement - something which he tries hard to pass on to others.

There is so much to do here to my current set up before putting in £30K's worth of DS. For example, I run my ethernet over mains - the difference between this and hard wiring is staggering (my EoM is noisy)  - and all that it involves is drills, ladders, a bit of thought , time and inclination to do it! However, as my main listening is to vinyl, and the system in my main room isn't Exakt, rewiring is still on the 'to-do' list!

I found your review very interesting and can see why you would have difficulty handing it back!

I will get to hear one at some point - and I suspect that it is like hearing a Kandid for the first time and going home to the 'non Kandid' LP12 - it's nice to know what's out there, but also nice to appreciate what you can do with your own personal budget (which of course may, or may not be stretched)!

 

Moomintroll

Fictional Character - not to be taken literally
Wammer
May 20, 2014
2,058
2,119
148
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
For the NGKDSM I think that you are possibly correct - all the indications are that it is not a subtle change - and will be nice to know what is possible. For the hub I'm not so sure - and I also find it visually unattractive (when paired with other boxes) - as a single box in a 350a exact system, in the right setting, it probably looks great!
The looks of it will always be down to personal choice. Having seen one “in the flesh” I’m warming to it - the quality is undeniable - and, dare I say it, the 2016 Klimax DSM on the shelf beneath it started to look a little dull after a while. With the Hub, although it doesn’t house the DAC, it still benefits from the new case, improved ADC, extra input options, optical Ethernet WiFi , Bluetooth etc. Even if you don’t use any of the new features and only stream and/or have a Urika II plugged in, it still benefits from a much a better clocking mechanism which improves all connected Exakt devices. I did the DAC comparison, but not the Hub one, but anecdotally, from the same dealer, the Hub contributes a very significant portion of the improvement, probably a lot more than the 20:80 suggested elsewhere. Interestingly, the Hub and 350 Organik upgrade package is considerably ‘cheaper’ than the NGKDSM (£25.8k vs £30k) although the the trade-in values of KDSMs vs KHubs come some way of levelling this out.

’troll

 

Moomintroll

Fictional Character - not to be taken literally
Wammer
May 20, 2014
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HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I will get to hear one at some point - and I suspect that it is like hearing a Kandid for the first time and going home to the 'non Kandid' LP12
Bigger than that. IMHO. :S

’troll

 
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vicjayl

vicjayl
Wammer
Oct 9, 2018
39
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west midlands, UK
AKA
Vic
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I have just listened to the  Saint-Saens Organ Symphony (Louis Fremaux CBSO) through a borrowed Klimax Hub into my 242s active with Exactbox and Akurate amps. I'll surpress the gush - but wow!  I've known this music, and this version since my first piece of "hi-fi", but the Klimax produced something of an epiphany. (Okay, I gushed.)

This is a serious bit of kit indeed, to my ears.   It will feed active Akurariks when built and delivered (four week wait, I'm told.) Not sure what to expect from the Akubariks - more of the same but with a little more focus and detail prerhaps(?)

Once again, great service from Hidden Systems (and Neil's set-up skills and advice.)  Best wishes to Chris Fuller, who will hopefully soon be parking his super motorbike on my drive to tweak my Space Optimisation with his magic touch.

Vic.

 

TooManyCatweazles

Vinyl Junkie with a DSM
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Jan 16, 2019
951
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Northern Germany
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
There will always be a better system somewhere out there, until we go to a live event and happen to be part of the real thing. Top hifi systems are getting closer, but the one that's more realistic than reality will never arrive. 

More pragmatic people (like she who owns the house) may turn away from hifi, and strive for the real thing - happily listening to the car radio, elsewise. (Unfair: The radio in her 14 yrs old BMW is much more musical than the audio in my car!)

I for one accept, that there is bigger & better sound, than my system can render. It's a great hobby to study this, and to sometimes shell out some money to do an incremental step forward with one's own system. Is a better system a good reason to be unhappy with one's own system? Not at all! We all here are priviledged to enjoy above the average musical systems. Dreaming of improvements is a good thing. After all, this is what powers progress and is deeply embedded in the human firmware - so to speak. Being unhappy, because we can't afford a better system? Oh come on. We should have learned as kids, that you can't always get what you want. But you can try sometimes 😉

Happy listening, whatever level your system is on!

 
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