New Speakers, New Problems

[zee9]

Hello everybody,
i'm expecting to get the (new to me) speakers by next month and really wanted to make the listening room less of a clutter. At the moment i use a Target audio rack on the right side of the system with a huge Ikea book case that holds up my curved samsung 55" TV. the whole idea since i won't be needing so many separate pieces of gear is to change the look of the TV/listening room (which also just happens to be our living room)
The expected speakers will most likely be exactly where the book shelves now are. The subwoofer (under the tripod lamp) and the audio rack on the side will be removed.

Here's a picture of what the living room looks like. (Please note the basik TT is next to the red lamp)

Ideally we’d like to have a small console that can hold up our curved TV so that it can go closer to the wall. the only equipment that will remain is our beloved ADSM/3, the linn Basik TT, a dvd player and the Netgear gs-108 network switch. there is also a Panamax surge protector that caters only to video equipment (might even be removed completely) additionally i have stand up wifi router, a stand up tmobile range extender (shitty cell phone reception at home) and an apple tv4K.

since id rather wait to surprise you guys with what integrated speakers im getting and not jinx the deal lets just say that i won't need any amps and they deserve to be the focal point of the room. hence the dilemma of changing things around. after my projected expenses on the speakers i can't really spend thousands of dollars on a beautiful console like the BDI octave etc but maybe you guys could suggest some ideas. i've really looked at all possible photos but can't make up my mind on what might be right.

This is presently what i like most (its no audiophile console) so that the Adsm/3 and the Turntable can be kept on top of the console just below where the TV's bottom edge will be.

The idea is to not use the side shelves and drill holes in the back so that the side areas can be used to hold the standup wifi router & tmobile range extender etc. the three shelves could hold the dvd player, the panamax surge protector and maybe even the apple tv/ amazon fire tv. the other depending own the depth the right side could hold the few records i have. we like that it has adjustable feet (our rental apt does not have 100% straight suspended wooden flooring) to keep the rack leveled. The gap below the main console will house my distrobox in the centre under the cabinet.

I WOULD REALLY REALLY WELCOME ANY IDEAS YOU GUYS HAVE.

 

[akamatsu]

For best sound quality, I've always used hifi racks that are of an open frame design, are completely rigid, and have spikes. Linn recommend placing components on a "stable surface," So no wobble. The sides of a cabinet style rack operate like sound boards that pick up airborne vibration and transfer them to the component. Keep the rack as lightweight as possible. This will move the harmonic (fundamental, characteristic) frequency higher, which would carry less energy, and be easier on the musical signal.

 

[Andyt916]

Hello everybody,
i'm expecting to get the (new to me) speakers by next month and really wanted to make the listening room less of a clutter. At the moment i use a Target audio rack on the right side of the system with a huge Ikea book case that holds up my curved samsung 55" TV. the whole idea since i won't be needing so many separate pieces of gear is to change the look of the TV/listening room (which also just happens to be our living room)
The expected speakers will most likely be exactly where the book shelves now are. The subwoofer (under the tripod lamp) and the audio rack on the side will be removed.

Here's a picture of what the living room looks like. (Please note the basik TT is next to the red lamp)




Ideally we’d like to have a small console that can hold up our curved TV so that it can go closer to the wall. the only equipment that will remain is our beloved ADSM/3, the linn Basik TT, a dvd player and the Netgear gs-108 network switch. there is also a Panamax surge protector that caters only to video equipment (might even be removed completely) additionally i have stand up wifi router, a stand up tmobile range extender (shitty cell phone reception at home) and an apple tv4K.

since id rather wait to surprise you guys with what integrated speakers im getting and not jinx the deal lets just say that i won't need any amps and they deserve to be the focal point of the room. hence the dilemma of changing things around. after my projected expenses on the speakers i can't really spend thousands of dollars on a beautiful console like the BDI octave etc but maybe you guys could suggest some ideas. i've really looked at all possible photos but can't make up my mind on what might be right.

This is presently what i like most (its no audiophile console) so that the Adsm/3 and the Turntable can be kept on top of the console just below where the TV's bottom edge will be.



The idea is to not use the side shelves and drill holes in the back so that the side areas can be used to hold the standup wifi router & tmobile range extender etc. the three shelves could hold the dvd player, the panamax surge protector and maybe even the apple tv/ amazon fire tv. the other depending own the depth the right side could hold the few records i have. we like that it has adjustable feet (our rental apt does not have 100% straight suspended wooden flooring) to keep the rack leveled. The gap below the main console will house my distrobox in the centre under the cabinet.

I WOULD REALLY REALLY WELCOME ANY IDEAS YOU GUYS HAVE.

I'd ask the (gorgeous) dog what he/she thinks; it's clearly deep in thought  

 

[zee9]

For best sound quality, I've always used hifi racks that are of an open frame design, are completely rigid, and have spikes. Linn recommend placing components on a "stable surface," So no wobble. The sides of a cabinet style rack operate like sound boards that pick up airborne vibration and transfer them to the component. Keep the rack as lightweight as possible. This will move the harmonic (fundamental, characteristic) frequency higher, which would carry less energy, and be easier on the musical signal.

thanks for the tip Michael,

if you and others could post a picture of their racks or consoles maybe that would help with ideas

 

[Andyt916]

On a more serious note, my first thought (after admiring the dog) when I saw your setup was wall mount for the TV and the turntable, then everything else barring new speakers can be tucked away somewhere. However, I noted that you mentioned rented apartment; does this preclude wall mounting?

 

[zee9]

On a more serious note, my first thought (after admiring the dog) when I saw your setup was wall mount for the TV and the turntable, then everything else barring new speakers can be tucked away somewhere. However, I noted that you mentioned rented apartment; does this preclude wall mounting?

Unfortunately the tv can’t be mounted to the wall

That would have solved all my issues


Adsm/3 >> Akurate 4200/1 >> Tukans (Silvers/K400)

 

[akamatsu]

Here is a link to the one that I use. It's the closest I could find to the old Sound Organisation racks that to me, were just about perfect. I would recommend a dedicated rack just for hifi components, no records, CDs, etc. stored. Keep the mass down. It really helps. Per Linn, it must first be stable.

Or you could just go with @SnapperMike's suggestion. The message is obviously to avoid anything made from silicone. 

https://www.amazon.com/VTI-BL404BC-Spikes-Cherry-Shelf/dp/B085QM1N1S/ref=sr_1_1?crid=G7DTFVOJT3BX&keywords=vti+audio+rack&qid=1636666004&qsid=131-6784570-3163616&sprefix=VTI%2Caps%2C262&sr=8-1&sres=B085QM1N1S%2CB009TX3RH2%2CB08534SRRW%2CB085QLGQPD%2CB085RPGQQM%2CB0852GQTZL%2CB085W98X16%2CB0043H9PUC%2CB085QKXT6J%2CB085RN3F8C%2CB085W8TPN7%2CB002YOR7I8%2CB085WB162Z%2CB085RQ8HX7%2CB085BR1TSD%2CB014OLLFU4%2CB009TX3QI2%2CB000I92TL6%2CB085H5QYMP%2CB002L2ANE8&srpt=SHELF

 

[zee9]

Here is a link to the one that I use. It's the closest I could find to the old Sound Organisation racks that to me, were just about perfect. I would recommend a dedicated rack just for hifi components, no records, CDs, etc. stored. Keep the mass down. It really helps. Per Linn, it must first be stable.
Or you could just go with @SnapperMike's suggestion. The message is obviously to avoid anything made from silicone.  [emoji3]
https://www.amazon.com/VTI-BL404BC-Spikes-Cherry-Shelf/dp/B085QM1N1S/ref=sr_1_1?crid=G7DTFVOJT3BX&keywords=vti+audio+rack&qid=1636666004&qsid=131-6784570-3163616&sprefix=VTI%2Caps%2C262&sr=8-1&sres=B085QM1N1S%2CB009TX3RH2%2CB08534SRRW%2CB085QLGQPD%2CB085RPGQQM%2CB0852GQTZL%2CB085W98X16%2CB0043H9PUC%2CB085QKXT6J%2CB085RN3F8C%2CB085W8TPN7%2CB002YOR7I8%2CB085WB162Z%2CB085RQ8HX7%2CB085BR1TSD%2CB014OLLFU4%2CB009TX3QI2%2CB000I92TL6%2CB085H5QYMP%2CB002L2ANE8&srpt=SHELF

That’s a good looking rack but won’t help with the 55” TV. With the new console all CDs books etc will move 10feet to the right. The target audio rack will be moved to the art studio with the klout and kabers


Adsm/3 >> Akurate 4200/1 >> Tukans (Silvers/K400)

 

[sunbeamgls]

How about a nice cupboard, with a door, where the hifi rack is now to put all the "stuff" in the TV cabinet into.  Then centralise the hifi rack - the TV could stand on top or be fixed to the wall.

Or you could go with a Quadraspire AV rack that's both rigid but open, and can support a big TV.

 

[Andyt916]

Barring @SnapperMike's suggestion which, whilst not without its own appealing features, may not provide the most stable platform, I am, along with @akamatsua big fan of the old Sound Organisation platforms. The closest that I have recently come across to their style and philosophy is Solid Steel.

Solidsteel - Premium Sound | Hi-Fi & Home Cinema Retailer in London UK

Never actually tried them so cannot vouch for their quality, but they look good to me and will be high on my list the next time I need to invest in hifi racking.

 

[Paulssurround]

As per your request Zee, when we were on the phone earlier, here are a couple of pictures of my setup

Yes, it is a BDI cabinet, the Avion, in black ash

I strive to be as uncluttered as possible 

 

[akamatsu]

Barring @SnapperMike's suggestion which, whilst not without its own appealing features, may not provide the most stable platform, I am, along with @akamatsua big fan of the old Sound Organisation platforms. The closest that I have recently come across to their style and philosophy is Solid Steel.

Solidsteel - Premium Sound | Hi-Fi & Home Cinema Retailer in London UK

Never actually tried them so cannot vouch for their quality, but they look good to me and will be high on my list the next time I need to invest in hifi racking.

I looked at Solidsteel, only online though. One of my criteria is the frame to be welded, and therefore, rigid. From what I could tell, the Solidsteel racks are assembled from a flatpack. I've yet to find a field assembled rack that is rigid enough. But Solidsteel looks to be the most promising.

 

[zee9]

How about a nice cupboard, with a door, where the hifi rack is now to put all the "stuff" in the TV cabinet into.  Then centralise the hifi rack - the TV could stand on top or be fixed to the wall.
Or you could go with a Quadraspire AV rack that's both rigid but open, and can support a big TV.

I can’t place the TV on the rack anymore since I need that space for the TT. Also due to the apt being a rental and an old coop I can’t install the tv on the wall.


Adsm/3 >> Akurate 4200/1 >> Tukans (Silvers/K400)

 

[akamatsu]

Since glass is technically a liquid and does not have the crystal structure that a solid has, it vibrates like crazy. Avoid it.

Remember; more rigid means less vibration. Less vibration means better sound. This is why Linn recommend that everything be on a stable rigid surface; speakers, components, turntable. No wobble.

 

[Paulssurround]

Since glass is technically a liquid and does not have the crystal structure that a solid has, it vibrates like crazy. Avoid it.

Remember; more rigid means less vibration. Less vibration means better sound. This is why Linn recommend that everything be on a stable rigid surface; speakers, components, turntable. No wobble.

I think Naim might not agree with you regarding glass, with their Naim Fraim rack system, which is engineered with all glass shelving that isolates the components placed on the glass.

https://www.naimaudio.com/product/fraim-0

Isoacoustic Gaia’s are much more effective as footers for speakers than spikes in most cases, and improve the sound quality of speakers significantly over spikes. 

 

[Pennypacker]

The most interesting question remains unanswered, which speaker are you expecting @zee9 ?

 

[Tony_J]

There's an awful lot of rubbish talked in audio circles about supports and isolation/coupling, most of it coming from a failure to understand the mechanics/physics involved. The fact that such rubbish is perpetuated in advertising material and the HiFi press doesn't make it true.

Spikes in cups (or into the floor) couple, they don't de-couple. In reality, complete mechanical de-coupling is pretty hard to do, absent the availability of a handy sky hook. The best you are likely to be able to do is to de-couple the two items over a given range of frequencies and amplitudes.

If thing A is sitting on (i.e., its weight is supported by) some other thing B, then those two things are, to a greater or lesser extent, coupled. If they weren't, then thing A would sink below thing B to a point where its weight was supported. Clearly, that doesn't happen. By varying the nature of the interface between A and B, the nature of the coupling can be changed - what you are doing is introducing a (mechanical) filter between the two things, and the characteristics of that filter combined with the masses of A and B will tell you what frequencies are filtered by the combination. Simple example: stick a set of springs between A and B, and oscillate B. Whether A also oscillates at the same frequency as B will depend on the spring rate and the mass of A. (Of course, if the amplitude of oscillation of B is large enough, all bets are off). Mechanical systems like this can be (and indeed are) analysed in ways entirely analogous to the way that oscillations in electrical systems are analysed, in order to precisely characterise how they will behave, using direct equivalences between mass, compliance, friction, ...etc. and electrical equivalents, inductance, capacitance and resistance. You rely on the effectiveness of such analysis for the fact that when you drive your car, you don't feel every bump in the road, and early computational models were indeed produced using equivalent electrical circuits built from discrete components (so-called analogue computers). However, despite the fact that the suspension filters out undesirable lumps and bumps from the road, the car remains firmly coupled to the road (or at least, you hope it does).

In mechanical terms, a spike sitting in a cup constitutes a mechanical short circuit - it couples perfectly; it doesn't introduce any (significant) friction, compliance, or mass to the oscillating system. Movement of the cup results in a corresponding movement of the spike (obviously, again, under conditions where the amplitude of the movement isn't excessively large, but in audio terms, getting to that point would probably be some time after your ears had started bleeding).

If you want to remove the effects that mechanical vibration transmitted through its support can have on your equipment, then there are two sorts of approach you can take:

- Couple the object firmly to a very large mass. Examples: spikes into a concrete floor (with or without cups - frankly they are irrelevant other than from the point of view of protecting the floor), or attach it firmly to a solid brick/block/stone wall. The net result will be to make the combination immune to anything other than very low fequency vibrations transmitted through the support (i.e., this is effectively creating a low pass filter).

- Mount the object on a mechanical filter that introduces some combination of mass, compliance and friction into the support. Whether it will work, and at what frequencies it will be effective, will depend on the mass(es), compliance, and friction involved. Generally what you are aiming to do is to block low frequency vibrations transmitted by the support and shift the frequency of transmitted vibrations up to a point where they don't matter (i.e., you're building a high pass filter).

 

[zee9]

The most interesting question remains unanswered, which speaker are you expecting @zee9 ?

Soon…… soon


Adsm/3 >> Akurate 4200/1 >> Tukans (Silvers/K400)

 

[90sLinn]

Since glass is technically a liquid and does not have the crystal structure that a solid has, it vibrates like crazy. Avoid it.

Remember; more rigid means less vibration. Less vibration means better sound. This is why Linn recommend that everything be on a stable rigid surface; speakers, components, turntable. No wobble.

And with this recommendation in mind, putting amps in the speakers will end up with what amount of vibration compared to amps on a stable support?