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PMC and Proac loudspeaker clones

mosfet

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 20, 2005
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AKA
Richard
I remember reading recently the difference in manufacturing costs between the UK and the ‘tiger economies’ is continuing to grow. The example given was, on average, a manufacturing cost of £10 in the UK has an equivalent manufacturing cost of £1.70 in China.

Looking at the site below it appears this disparity in manufacturing costs is being used to advantage to manufacture and market cloned versions of PMC and Proac loudspeakers.

The specs given suggest these aren’t poor copies (like fake wrist watches) but near-as-dammit exact copies using the same high quality drivers and crossover components etc.

I’ve no idea what actual build quality is like and there’s far more to a good quality loudspeaker than its component parts. In any case have a look.

Note. Plans and circuit schematics for cloned versions of the Proac 2.5 Response have been circulating within the DIY audio community for some time now so it’s hardly surprising commercial equivalents are now available.

100110.jpg


Knoxed FB1 Standing Speakers

Our Price: £ 222.00

Retail Price: £466.00

Made according to PMC FB1: same VIFA D25AG-05-06 & M17WG-09-08 units, same internal component design(filter block, WIMA ERO capacitors etc.). Fiber wood body. 100x20x30cm, 22Hz-20KHz, 18kg/pc, 90dB/8ohms (nom). Almost the same sound but unbelieveable price --- highly recommended!

100111.jpg


Knoxed TB2 Bookshelf speakers

Our Price: £ 188.00

Retail Price: £394.00

Made according to PMC TB2: same VIFA D25AG-05-06 & M17WG-09-08 units, same internal component design(filter block, WIMA ERO capacitors etc.). Fiber wood body. 40x20x30cm, 40Hz-25KHz, 8.5kg/pc, 90dB/8ohms (nom). Almost the same sound but unbelieveable price --- highly recommended!

100108.jpg


Knoxed Response One S Bookshelf

Our Price: £ 213.00

Retail Price: £448.00

Made according to ProAc Response One S: same Scan Speak D2010/8513 & SeasH702 units, same internal component design(filter block, WIMA ERO capacitors etc.). Fiber wood body. 8 ohms, 45hz ~ 30Khz, 83db, 20-100w, 11" x 6.5" x 9 3/4"(H x W x D). 8 kg/pc. Almost the same sound but unbelieveable price --- highly recommended!

http://www.ornec.com/index_e.php

 

JamPal

Content Provider
Wammer
Jul 19, 2005
32,264
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Sussex, West Side
AKA
James
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Blimey! Has anyone actually heard these copies. Do we have any memebers in the far east that could check them out for us (there were some guys on HFC over that way).

I am really not to keen on this from a moral standpoint though. All the bloody hard work and effort that underpaid and under valued British engineers have put into the design and then some fucker comes along and rips them off.. HFC.....WigWam.. Pot... kettle.... shit!

I'll get my coat.
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A

adam

Guest
The problem is it cost over 300€uros in shipping,rather defeats the object,I'd get a pair of the proac standmounters,but I'm not forking out thoes postage costs.
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mosfet

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 20, 2005
6,194
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Surrey
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Richard
The problem is it cost over 300€uros in shipping,rather defeats the object,I'd get a pair of the proac standmounters,but I'm not forking out thoes postage costs.
The company selling theses cloned loudspeakers, ornec, would not have a viable business if shipping costs make the total cost more than the UK price for a pair of authentic Proac or PMC loudspeakers. Clearly they wouldn’t sell any of these loudspeakers. Unfortunately the website doesn’t give much away other than the statement on the home page.

We are a UK based company, our head office being in oxford. Our main objective is to promote Chinese HiFi Audio Equipment all over the world. Our role in the hifi industry is quite special as we are the link between the manufactures, mostly unknown to the European market, and the clients.

In addition, we only use the best courier companies like DHL and FedEx for deliveries to ensure satisfied clients. Deliveries of products like Shanling and Grado usually take 72 hours, from our factory to our clients. Ornec fully supports, and has a close relationship with G&W, a Chinese hifi audio company set up by Tsinghua University in Beijing china.

This sort of copying isn’t unusual in manufacturing rather it’s not usually so overt or blatant. Behringer for instance, a successful manufacturer of pro-audio and studio equipment, has based a number of its products directly on the designs of other manufacturers.

 
A

adam

Guest
Mosfet,

Even with shipping it would still be 50% cheaper than the originals,but they are not the originals,so I feel they can't compare price wise,as it's fake.

The point I was trying to make for speakers for sale for 300€uros to have a shipping price of 385€uros seems nuts to me.

 

mosfet

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 20, 2005
6,194
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Surrey
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Richard
We don’t know what the actual shipping costs ornec are charging adam – either to the UK or Europe. I think you have to create an account on the website to find out.

‘fake’ is maybe not the best word to use since it infers poor quality materials.

These loudspeakers appear to use the same high quality vifa and scan speak drivers and quality crossover components to the same design of the real thing. The unknown quantity is the build quality of the enclosures and whether or not this part of the loudspeaker design is also closely copied from the original.

If I had to guess I’d say these cloned Chinese loudspeakers would at least be on par with the sort of kit builds available from Wilmslow Audio and others.

 
A

adam

Guest
Hi Mosfet,

I created an account,that's how I got the price for shipping,I would have tried the pro ac standmounters for 100€ shipping, but getting on for 400€uros was a bit too much.

Maybe not fake,but would be intresting to know what pro-ac feel about the "copy", even in name.

 

subterranean-alien

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 25, 2005
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Lancashire, , United
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Stu
ProAc seem to be responding to the clone war by sourcing their own drivers. Also I do believe the scan-speak tweeter used by ProAc was made to their specification and is quite different from the scan-speak version mentioned, something to do with a fluid surround I think.

I think that expecting these clones to be sound like the 2.5 might be stretching it abit but they might be very good speakers in their own right at that price. I know the clones are very good speakers for the money they cost to make.

 

teddaley

Wammer
New Wammer
Oct 1, 2009
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I AM in the process of making a pair of open baffle speakers using dayton rs 225 aluminium 8.5" cones for bass dayton rs125 for mids and vifa xt25sg30 4ohm tweeters. i heard these speakers at the iowa 2008 show for diy speaker designs they were very good almost like the linkwitz open baffles. they are fully passive and i have tweaked the design to suit my room.I have tuned the bass to go slightly lower. iwill keep everyone posted they are called the sunflowers. teddaley

 

paulf-2007

Wammer
Wammer
Jun 18, 2008
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souf east for work
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
earlofsodbury wrote:

Those PMC clones have been around since at least 2003/4, if they were any good I'm sure we'd have heard the usual suspects on here squealing like a stuck pig about it :roll: TBH, the originals ain't all that great...
:^overhyped to say the least, overpriced as well ( the originals that is )

 

Cable Monkey

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Staff member
May 16, 2006
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Henry
HiFi Trade?
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The One S© ProAcs have had a clone around for years, though US based as far as I knew. It is only since China took on production of the woodwork that this tailed off. Someone got a company to knock together a load of boxes and then published suggesteddrive unitsand a crossover to put into them. As suggested above though the 1SC at least has a custom woofer and it is that drive unit that does the lions share and is responsible for the merits of the 1SC. I also feel that these speakers have no second hand value to speak of and that will put serious buyers off.

 

It Cost How Much!?!

Twisted
Wammer
Oct 27, 2008
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Bob
HiFi Trade?
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Their real cost to the buyer is quite high, as you try selling 'fake' speakers in the UK and you risk PMC or ProAc being less than pleased and the price you will get will not be very high.

I would stick with the UK built examples as they will probably sound much better and not have these problems.

 

wickfut

Wammer
Wammer
Jun 2, 2007
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Preston, Lancashire,
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Marc
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
If the Chinese want to make a speaker of similar build quality, which sounds 90% as good and costs a 1/4 or less then I'm all for it.

Who cares if you can't sell it. You bought it brand new for 1/4 or less of the price.

I wish they'd hurry up and do a nice version of PMC IB2s

 

Cable Monkey

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May 16, 2006
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Henry
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
wickfut wrote:

If the Chinese want to make a speaker of similar build quality, which sounds 90% as good and costs a 1/4 or less then I'm all for it. Who cares if you can't sell it. You bought it brand new for 1/4 or less of the price.

I wish they'd hurry up and do a nice version of PMC IB2s
That is a reasonable premise if you can afford the more expensive speaker but choose not to. If you can only afford £400 for a clone of what should be a £1200 speaker then you are no less interested in resale values than someone with more disposeable income. You are also competing directly with second hand items that will retain their value. Then there is support for your purchases, China is a long way to send a speaker when something goes wrong and I doubt the 'UK agents' will expend too much energy supporting you assuming they are anything more than the obligatory PO Box address in the UK. However, all of the above are potential obstacles I suppose, so people make a considered choice and then act. :upgrade:
 

wickfut

Wammer
Wammer
Jun 2, 2007
2,709
38
93
Preston, Lancashire,
AKA
Marc
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
That is a reasonable premise if you can afford the more expensive speaker but choose not to. If you can only afford £400 for a clone of what should be a £1200 speaker then you are no less interested in resale values than someone with more disposeable income. You are also competing directly with second hand items that will retain their value.
Every item I buy I hope it's the last one I need so I don't think of resale value. If anyone puts resale value high up on their priorities then they wouldn't buy new anyway.

Then there is support for your purchases, China is a long way to send a speaker when something goes wrong and I doubt the 'UK agents' will expend too much energy supporting you assuming they are anything more than the obligatory PO Box address in the UK. However, all of the above are potential obstacles I suppose, so people make a considered choice and then act. :upgrade:
I've never used Ornec so I can't vouch for them, but Cattylink were very helpful when I received a faulty Esound CDP. The transport came off its runners in transit and I managed to strip it and rebuild it in about 20 minutes. Cattylink replied to my emails within 10 minutes and were going to send me replacement parts and direct me to a UK repair shop they use.

I'd trust buying from Cattylink more than buying from some dodgy git on eBay any day.

Every person is different I guess. I've really liked the Chinese kit I've owned and will probably be going back down that route again very soon.

 

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