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Sealed versus ported boxes in a 2-way speaker?

Andrew_C

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Simply that you can use a loudspeaker with really deep bass in any room and cure with EQ any boomy bass.

 

andrew s

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Simply that you can use a loudspeaker with really deep bass in any room and cure with EQ any boomy bass.
My understanding was you can cut peaks with EQ but you can't fill in nulls.

I had a deep null at my listening position due to reflection from the back wall. You can't fill it in but you can vary the frequency of it by changing the distance of the speakers from the wall or move out of it  by shifting the listening position.

Regards Andrew 

 
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Tony_J

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At a single listening position, that I'd agree with  .
Good point, I imagine if you measure the response at a null point it will think there's no problem whereas if you measure at the peak it will maximise the eq.
Indeed. Which is one reason that Dirac uses multiple measurements over a volume rather than a single measurement at the sweet spot.

 
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MartinC

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At a single listening position, that I'd agree with  .
Good point, I imagine if you measure the response at a null point it will think there's no problem whereas if you measure at the peak it will maximise the eq.
Even when optimising for a single listening position it still makes sense to base EQ on some sort of average over a range of positions. Most listeners have two ears that are not at the same location for starters  :) .

My personal experience is very much that EQ can do an excellent job at enabling a full-range sound in a modestly sized room without boomy room mode issues.

 
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hiesteem

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Whilst dirac/eq is an option I still feel it's a compromise over a suitably sized room for different types/sizes of speakers given their optimum design, purpose and maximising their potential. 

 

rdale

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Whilst dirac/eq is an option I still feel it's a compromise over a suitably sized room for different types/sizes of speakers given their optimum design, purpose and maximising their potential. 
I don’t think there is any substitute for actually treating the room modes with bass traps.

 
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DomT

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The normal advice is to do organic treatment first and then DSP. 

 
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DomT

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Anyway we are seriously taking this thread onto a different subject so best to stop and get back on track. 

 

tuga

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It’s like training people to identify added salt in meals and then asking them which meal has added salt; it’s obvious that a well trained person will spot what they were trained for. But we’re these people asked to identify which speakers they preferred? People buy based on their subjective tastes including people who subjectively prefer well measuring speakers. 
I agree that the large majority of audiophiles will buy speakers whose "presentation" they prefer.

It is perhaps likely that trained listeners will prefer more accurate speakers, for the simple reason that they have learned to identify deviations from accurate and different types of distortion.

 

StingRay

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I agree that the large majority of audiophiles will buy speakers whose "presentation" they prefer.

It is perhaps likely that trained listeners will prefer more accurate speakers, for the simple reason that they have learned to identify deviations from accurate and different types of distortion.
A lot of those untrained people were not audiophiles. Is this the same study that found the students wanted more bass? Actually apart from bass the results were similar, the trained wanted less treble than the flat response and the untrained wanted more. It does not say how long they listened to the speakers for. If a short time then a more impact sound may have been preferred by many, if for longer than 30 minutes then a more flat sound may be preferred.

 
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DomT

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I agree that the large majority of audiophiles will buy speakers whose "presentation" they prefer.

It is perhaps likely that trained listeners will prefer more accurate speakers, for the simple reason that they have learned to identify deviations from accurate and different types of distortion.
Everyone has their own preferences but I personally prefer my ‘not flat’ Quad 909/Harbeth P3ESR over my ‘completely flat’ active Neumann KH80s to listen to commercial music for pleasure any day. For mixing the Neumanns are better. 

 
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DomT

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I agree that the large majority of audiophiles will buy speakers whose "presentation" they prefer.

It is perhaps likely that trained listeners will prefer more accurate speakers, for the simple reason that they have learned to identify deviations from accurate and different types of distortion.
I was not just trying to be contrary but a consideration is also the type of music played. If it was a well recorded a string quartet or guitar and vocal then maybe I would listen on the Neumanns but even then would still much prefer the Harbeths. I know that you like to listen to the ambience of the concert hall in which case you would love my Neumanns over the Harbeths.

A producer recently did a simultaneous multitrack recording with $1M of vintage desk and outboard vs digital ‘in the box’. Both sounded ‘good’ and one was squeaky clean and the other wasn’t.

But typically when the squeaky clean mixes go to mastering houses (vintage) analogue outboard is used to warm things up! But clearly we are talking about personal preferences regardless whether recording or playback.

 
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tuga

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A lot of those untrained people were not audiophiles. Is this the same study that found the students wanted more bass? Actually apart from bass the results were similar, the trained wanted less treble than the flat response and the untrained wanted more. It does not say how long they listened to the speakers for. If a short time then a more impact sound may have been preferred by many, if for longer than 30 minutes then a more flat sound may be preferred.
I linked the study in another thread, if you're interested. The differences are quite significant in my view:

DVJw9vt.png


 

StingRay

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The differences are greater with the trained listeners at the high frequencies. Trained listeners wanted a rolled off treble. A sample of 4 is far too small to be meaningful, maybe they liked Rap and R&B music?

 

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