System advice please!

klunk

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HI Wammers, 

I wasn't sure what to call this thread, I have the following system. 

Pro-ject Classic 9 cherry turntable with Ortofon 2M blue - this is my first turntable since rubbish in the 80s and I love it !

Musical Fidelity A1 - The 2008 model with remote - this is mint and was a complete bargain!

Art Expression V6 - upgraded with SEAS Crescendo tweeters and overdamped bass port (whatever that is)

I also use a Sonos Connect into a Bresford DAC - which streams CDs ripped losslessly.

I have had an MF tri-vista - which was amazing if a I little clinical - and a Sugden A21A which was a bit mushy for me - The MF A1 seems to be a good compromise between the too - great soundstage and detail through the ARTs.

I have been tinkering for years and I think I have found a lovely 'keeper' of a system that only owes me approx. £1700 - and actually is mainly free once I factor in the money I made over the years on other kit I sold on eBay....

So my question is - what should I do to tinker? thoughts are Ortofon 2M BRONZE and maybe a tonearm upgrade - or save for a different turntable altogether - Maybe a GyroDeck…

Is that worth it in this system - I know it's a bit Mullet but I love the speakers and am not sure I could sell them !

 

Rockchild

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Hi Klunk

very subjective post and will only be personal to you.

regarding upgrade, I think I would look at what you use most.. consider a streamer if digital but if it’s vinyl, there are many options but I wouldn’t bother upgrading the arm. Also, the phonostage needs to handle the upgrade and if your using the MFs internal one, it will have its limitations.

 

plasticpenguin

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HI Wammers, 

I wasn't sure what to call this thread, I have the following system. 

Pro-ject Classic 9 cherry turntable with Ortofon 2M blue - this is my first turntable since rubbish in the 80s and I love it !

Musical Fidelity A1 - The 2008 model with remote - this is mint and was a complete bargain!

Art Expression V6 - upgraded with SEAS Crescendo tweeters and overdamped bass port (whatever that is)

I also use a Sonos Connect into a Bresford DAC - which streams CDs ripped losslessly.

I have had an MF tri-vista - which was amazing if a I little clinical - and a Sugden A21A which was a bit mushy for me - The MF A1 seems to be a good compromise between the too - great soundstage and detail through the ARTs.

I have been tinkering for years and I think I have found a lovely 'keeper' of a system that only owes me approx. £1700 - and actually is mainly free once I factor in the money I made over the years on other kit I sold on eBay....

So my question is - what should I do to tinker? thoughts are Ortofon 2M BRONZE and maybe a tonearm upgrade - or save for a different turntable altogether - Maybe a GyroDeck…

Is that worth it in this system - I know it's a bit Mullet but I love the speakers and am not sure I could sell them !
Hi Klunk. Welcome...

Why were the tweeters upgraded? This sounds like something that perhaps shouldn't be there.

I have the same table, how come you've fitted it with a Blue? The original was a Silver.

As Radiant suggested it is very subjective, so you'll need to have a trial and error period., 

 

MF 1000

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I've never heard anyone describe a MF amp as clinical ?  Synergy between different items of kit is one we all strive for and it can take a while to sort etc.  Was your view of the MF on both vinyl and cd/downloads etc

id experiment with the porting on the Arts .....overdamped suggests its stuffed with longhair wool or foam ....have look and remove it see what it does etc.

Update your location as you may be able to tap into local wammers and do a bit of kit swapping too, or someone might have a umik mike & REW to assist on your general sound profile etc 

 
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klunk

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All, 

Thanks for your replies.

Hi Klunk. Welcome...

Why were the tweeters upgraded? This sounds like something that perhaps shouldn't be there.

I have the same table, how come you've fitted it with a Blue? The original was a Silver.

As Radiant suggested it is very subjective, so you'll need to have a trial and error period., 
They were upgraded before I bought them by ART themselves so have been done properly and sound superb.

I have the Classic 9 - it was used and came without a cartridge so I fitted a blue - again it sounds good but is now 7 years old.

Hi Klunk

very subjective post and will only be personal to you.

regarding upgrade, I think I would look at what you use most.. consider a streamer if digital but if it’s vinyl, there are many options but I wouldn’t bother upgrading the arm. Also, the phonostage needs to handle the upgrade and if your using the MFs internal one, it will have its limitations.
Yes I am using the inboard phono stage and also have a cheap project one worth about 60 quid that I could swap out - sounds like I could gain more with a better one?

I've never heard anyone describe a MF amp as clinical ?  Synergy between different items of kit is one we all strive for and it can take a while to sort etc.  Was your view of the MF on both vinyl and cd/downloads etc

id experiment with the porting on the Arts .....overdamped suggests its stuffed with longhair wool or foam ....have look and remove it see what it does etc.

Update your location as you may be able to tap into local wammers and do a bit of kit swapping too, or someone might have a umik mike & REW to assist on your general sound profile etc 
Maybe clinical is the wrong word - I am not as experienced as most on here tbh. The speakers were done by ART and were an expensive upgrade / conversion so I have confidence they were done properly.

The obvious question is why change anything then?
And this is a very good question - I think I am so used to looking for the next upgrade that it has become a habit.

I am toying with a 2M bronze as they are 245 which seems good value . thoughts?

 

MartinC

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And this is a very good question - I think I am so used to looking for the next upgrade that it has become a habit.

I am toying with a 2M bronze as they are 245 which seems good value . thoughts?
I'm afraid my thought is that I know nothing about vinyl playback paraphernalia  :D .

I will though add that having speakers as the most expensive part of a system is generally as it should be as far as I'm concerned. Certainly for digital playback anyway. 

 

Rockchild

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I think if you were going to spend upwards of 2k on a properly sorted Gyro then the answer would be yes to upgrades on the phonostage... 

The hobby will spiral lol

 

uzzy

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Hi Klunk. Welcome...

Why were the tweeters upgraded? This sounds like something that perhaps shouldn't be there.

I have the same table, how come you've fitted it with a Blue? The original was a Silver.

As Radiant suggested it is very subjective, so you'll need to have a trial and error period., 
The tweeters as said above, were a manufacturer change, Art moved from horn loaded to SEAS crescendo tweeters due to the problem with consistency in the Morel MDT33 tweeters previously used (I prefer the horn loaded Morels). Some owners changed the old Morels to the SEAS.   I wouldn't so much call it an upgrade but rather an alternative (which some people prefer).

Cracking loudspeakers and you would have to spend a lot of dosh to get anything better IMO.

If you love the sound (it seems like a lovely balanced system to me) then why are you hankering after a change/upgrade?  Try and get a listen to some different cartridges to see if there is an improvement to your ears (I would be tempted to move to a Moving Coil like the Hanna in your current set up so try and get a comparison at dealers?)   

Enjoy 

 

Non-Smoking Man

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Change the turntable and arm would be my advice.

The Gyrodec would be a good choice or the Orbe.

Another is the Clearaudio Emotion which c/w the excellent Satisfy arm.

Jack NSM

 

plasticpenguin

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The tweeters as said above, were a manufacturer change, Art moved from horn loaded to SEAS crescendo tweeters due to the problem with consistency in the Morel MDT33 tweeters previously used (I prefer the horn loaded Morels). Some owners changed the old Morels to the SEAS.   I wouldn't so much call it an upgrade but rather an alternative (which some people prefer).

Cracking loudspeakers and you would have to spend a lot of dosh to get anything better IMO.

If you love the sound (it seems like a lovely balanced system to me) then why are you hankering after a change/upgrade?  Try and get a listen to some different cartridges to see if there is an improvement to your ears (I would be tempted to move to a Moving Coil like the Hanna in your current set up so try and get a comparison at dealers?)   

Enjoy 
Having heard Art speakers they can sound a little dry, and therefore need careful partnering. The ones I'm talking about was the Art Stiletto*. The owner was using a valve amp to keep them balanced.

*Assuming that Art, like a lot of brands, have a 'house' sound.

 

uzzy

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Having heard Art speakers they can sound a little dry, and therefore need careful partnering. The ones I'm talking about was the Art Stiletto*. The owner was using a valve amp to keep them balanced.

*Assuming that Art, like a lot of brands, have a 'house' sound.
Makes you wonder what an environment can do - the Stilletto was not dry to my ears .. and the bigger Arts are anything but dry - they are however extremely accurate in the right environment.  I do not think Art speakers have a house sound but if the designers have an aim (producing loudspeakers that have as flat a frequency response as they can make em) then having similar response curves it is not unlikely that they will sort of sound alike.

 

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I would be looking at cart and phono stages, that is where I feel you will get the best return. I used the Blue for a short while, and to be honest was not overly immpressed. At least it was better than the Red. Trying to hear carts is a bit of a nightmare, unless any local wammers have one you are interested in or a local dealer has some on demo.  The AT range has some interesting models, both MM and MC. Staying with MM will be the least expesive option providing your stage will let it show.

 
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plasticpenguin

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Makes you wonder what an environment can do - the Stilletto was not dry to my ears .. and the bigger Arts are anything but dry - they are however extremely accurate in the right environment.  I do not think Art speakers have a house sound but if the designers have an aim (producing loudspeakers that have as flat a frequency response as they can make em) then having similar response curves it is not unlikely that they will sort of sound alike.
This person who had the Arts at the time tried them with a number of different amplifiers and found they worked best with tube or valve amps. To me, at the time, I could understand his logic given how lively and accurate they were.

The Stilettos were good but didn't blow me away.

 

klunk

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Thanks all, will investigate carts and phono stages. 

Top of the list is 2M bronze and Goldring 1042 - any other suggestions AT or otherwise?

ART speakers - ahhh - my first 'serious' HiFi speakers were ARTs - the 4 inch stilettos - then I bought stiletto monitors and then got lucky on Expression V6s at what I still think was a huge bargain.

no rush to replace or even think of replacing - I know opinions differ but they make me smile every day and I don't want that to be ruined.

my focus is getting the best out of them without succumbing to the bug too much, as my passion for cars and motorbikes is expensive enough. 

So far hifi has me in credit on the whole over a 14 year hobby.

 

klunk

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The tweeters as said above, were a manufacturer change, Art moved from horn loaded to SEAS crescendo tweeters due to the problem with consistency in the Morel MDT33 tweeters previously used (I prefer the horn loaded Morels). Some owners changed the old Morels to the SEAS.   I wouldn't so much call it an upgrade but rather an alternative (which some people prefer).

Cracking loudspeakers and you would have to spend a lot of dosh to get anything better IMO.

If you love the sound (it seems like a lovely balanced system to me) then why are you hankering after a change/upgrade?  Try and get a listen to some different cartridges to see if there is an improvement to your ears (I would be tempted to move to a Moving Coil like the Hanna in your current set up so try and get a comparison at dealers?)   

Enjoy 
Yeah I was conscious that the tweeter choice was subjective, hence the upgrade / conversion bit - I thought the horns tweeters on the stilettos were superb (assuming they were similar to what you had) but I do prefer the SEAS - that may be due to the general superiority of the Expressions however.

 

Nopiano

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A bargain tweak I recall being recommended in one review of your turntable was the Pro-ject Cork or Leather-IT mats, to replace the standard felt.  They seem to be around £20 and £50 respectively.  

I wouldn’t replace the arm on the Classic. It’s really sold as a unit.  If you fancy a Michell I’m sure you won’t be disappointed - British engineering at its best, and great value. 

 

uzzy

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The Stilettos were good but didn't blow me away.
I have yet to hear a speaker that small that blew anyone away (limited capability of pushing air perhaps).  It was designed for those people who do not want to blast the walls out and who want diminutive loudspeakers.  The other thing of course is we are all different in our preferences, one man's accurate is another man's overbright and another man's too dull.   There are those that cannot live without deep bass and yet others who do not find it a necessity .. so it is horses for courses and all we can do is suggest what we like and why but in the end beauty is in the ears (and eyes) of the beholder   :bouncey:

klunk   Yeah I was conscious that the tweeter choice was subjective, hence the upgrade / conversion bit - I thought the horns tweeters on the stilettos were superb (assuming they were similar to what you had) but I do prefer the SEAS - that may be due to the general superiority of the Expressions however.

I can understand why some would prefer the Crescendo .. what I didn't like as much as the horn loaded Morel is it integrates better (to me the Crescendo draws attention to itself and when you compare the new reference speakers to the older Deccos you may understand why I feel the way I do (they moved back to an older technology in a modern guise namely a soft dome alnico unit for the Reference which to my ears integrates so much better and now of course the diamond tweeter if you have £6k lying about to upgrade the tweeter).    Horses for courses at the end of the day but you realise the magic of Arts.
 
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