Linn Owners

"Time to Put Away The Onzow ZeroDust?"

mskaye

mskaye
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The reaction you point out is fairly typical of MF. IF anyone questions him about anything he does or writes about, he immediately goes on the offense. I have personally witnessed him be completely uncouth with not only vendors but also members of the public who dared to question him about the most innocuous of issues. 

It would have been more than appropriate IMO to have consulted the makers of Onzow Zerodust before trashing their product on the web. Instead, we get to read ad hominem posts from MF and also a 'coincidental' follow up from Wally tools about they just happen to be in the exact process of releasing a stylus microscope to inspect for stylus issues. Very convenient and coincidental...
I think anyone on this forum (inc. me at times) that has an issue with someone being defensive needs to take a serious look in the mirror at themselves. Once again, MF's combativeness is part of his persona and what makes his writing entertaining.  Don't like it?  Don't read him. There's a ton of boring audio writing out there to consume.  

 
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macfan

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@mskaye For the most part I do not disagree with your take that if you do not like MF do not read him or watch the videos. I also think it is reasonable to bring findings of potential issues with products that have been reviewed, recommended, and purchased by readers to the forefront. 

I feel the issue in this case is publishing without have an associated manufacturer response to the issue(s) raised. When I first got into this hobby and started reading Stereophile, when a review was published there as always an associated manufactures comments on the review. This was to either support positive findings or address negative findings The dustup in this case has more to do with approach than what has been published.

That being said, the article did help support my previous choice to stop using products like this with my Krystal.  

 

mskaye

mskaye
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@mskaye For the most part I do not disagree with your take that if you do not like MF do not read him or watch the videos. I also think it is reasonable to bring findings of potential issues with products that have been reviewed, recommended, and purchased by readers to the forefront. 

I feel the issue in this case is publishing without have an associated manufacturer response to the issue(s) raised. When I first got into this hobby and started reading Stereophile, when a review was published there as always an associated manufactures comments on the review. This was to either support positive findings or address negative findings The dustup in this case has more to do with approach than what has been published.

That being said, the article did help support my previous choice to stop using products like this with my Krystal.  
well over and above the DS Audio/Onzow issue, the ad hominem attacks on MF seemed to overshadow a simple discussion on those two stylus cleaning products.  very typical for this forum.  

 
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Daveyf

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I think anyone on this forum (inc. me at times) that has an issue with someone being defensive needs to take a serious look in the mirror at themselves. Once again, MF's combativeness is part of his persona and what makes his writing entertaining.  Don't like it?  Don't read him. There's a ton of boring audio writing out there to consume.  
Ok, except the incident i personally witnessed with MF went way beyond just being defensive. He was beligerent, uncouth and foul mouthed to the person..and for no good reason that I could tell. This is apparently something that he is well known for. Not sure why you want to defend behavior like that?

 

mskaye

mskaye
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Ok, except the incident i personally witnessed with MF went way beyond just being defensive. He was beligerent, uncouth and foul mouthed to the person..and for no good reason that I could tell. This is apparently something that he is well known for. Not sure why you want to defend behavior like that?
That's great. Let's take a poll here on Wigwam about wammers who personally experienced bad behavior by MF -  which on the scale of first world problems ranks up there with disgruntled LP12 owners who have to live with the fact that their former top of the line Kandid is no longer top of the line.  

 

Daveyf

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That's great. Let's take a poll here on Wigwam about wammers who personally experienced bad behavior by MF -  which on the scale of first world problems ranks up there with disgruntled LP12 owners who have to live with the fact that their former top of the line Kandid is no longer top of the line.  
So, why the constant defense of this individual's behavior?? 

 
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myles

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Nice that you can finally see my point...🤣
Having seen how things work in your part of the world, you could sue the man for the rude words he said; suffering from verbally induced injuries maybe. It sounds like you have a case. 

 

myles

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Thought this thread was about stylus cleaner. 🙄
Yeah, you are right. Now if I used something like this and someone identified that it was damaging an expensive (to me) cartridge, I'd be very thankful that I found out straight away. If the company were made aware first, how long would that information take to flow down to the consumer? How many more cartridges would be damaged in that time?

I personally use one of those Audio Technica 637 vibrating thingies. Not to say they are foolproof though!

 

Wenge1

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As I've said earlier it may have got lost now but I did use the original silly putty with great results but I just fancied something a bit less garden shed and having had many years of success with Audio Technica products they did the very thing.

And is washable too. 👍

Santa Stocking Filler. 😉

View attachment 103651
I use that too and very successfully - Offhand I can't remember who recommended it to me ............ 🤪 😎 👍

 

mskaye

mskaye
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No comment necessary.  

 
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mskaye

mskaye
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So, why the constant defense of this individual's behavior?? 
Let's look at this statement:  "He was beligerent [sic], uncouth and foul mouthed to the person..and for no good reason that I could tell. This is apparently something that he is well known for.  "

I listen to a lot of NY sports talk radio (WFAN to be precise.)  When a listener calls in with a negative personal interaction story about a particular NY sports personality (could be athlete, coach, announcer, writer) the host will immediately cut short the convo as there is no proof that this person is telling the truth.   

Earlier in this chain, some wammer made a glib comment about Fremer's credibility.  When pushed to detail examples? No response.  A disagreement with MFs opinion or approach is not a credibility issue. YOU just didn't want to believe what he put in his column (and yes, without Onzow's ability to respond, maybe a little incomplete.)  I'm sure if he wrote about a problem with Naim's Solstice, Wammer's here would be dancing.  

In your case, your lack of certainty over the context (THAT I COULD TELL and APPARENTLY) of the alleged belligerent interaction makes it a non-issue to me.  

So Fremer obviously rubs people the wrong way (both on this site and in the feedback section of his column.) Fremer is a controversial figure for certain.  Opinionated and an authority with like 30+ years of experience in this thing.  Knowing how heated some people (me inc. right now) get over this nonsense,  maybe he blew up at someone.  Maybe his reaction was entirely justified (lifelong advocates to certain brands get very upset when "experts" don't agree with them and you read that here all the time.) As a semi "celebrity" in this business, people these days have boundary issues.  Based on how unreasonable people in this hobby can be, it's just as likely as it being justified.  As a proselytizer for the superiority of analog playback THERE IS NO BETTER ADVOCATE ON THE F-ING PLANET than Michael Fremer.    

So I will continue to read and learn from MF's column. Feel free to join me. You'll learn something about music and equipment (but really only if you want to acknowledge that the world thankfully doesn't revolve around Linn Audio.) If he is not a perfect person,  I DON'T CARE.   Until he personally causes me direct harm or is under investigation for a heinous crime, I WILL continue defend him for what I learn from his writings and videos.

 
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cspgqqt

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Daveyf

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Let's look at this statement:  "He was beligerent [sic], uncouth and foul mouthed to the person..and for no good reason that I could tell. This is apparently something that he is well known for.  "

I listen to a lot of NY sports talk radio (WFAN to be precise.)  When a listener calls in with a negative personal interaction story about a particular NY sports personality (could be athlete, coach, announcer, writer) the host will immediately cut short the convo as there is no proof that this person is telling the truth.   

Earlier in this chain, some wammer made a glib comment about Fremer's credibility.  When pushed to detail examples? No response.  A disagreement with MFs opinion or approach is not a credibility issue. YOU just didn't want to believe what he put in his column (and yes, without Onzow's ability to respond, maybe a little incomplete.)  I'm sure if he wrote about a problem with Naim's Solstice, Wammer's here would be dancing.  

In your case, your lack of certainty over the context (THAT I COULD TELL and APPARENTLY) of the alleged belligerent interaction makes it a non-issue to me.  

So Fremer obviously rubs people the wrong way (both on this site and in the feedback section of his column.) Fremer is a controversial figure for certain.  Opinionated and an authority with like 30+ years of experience in this thing.  Knowing how heated some people (me inc. right now) get over this nonsense,  maybe he blew up at someone.  Maybe his reaction was entirely justified (lifelong advocates to certain brands get very upset when "experts" don't agree with them and you read that here all the time.) As a semi "celebrity" in this business, people these days have boundary issues.  Based on how unreasonable people in this hobby can be, it's just as likely as it being justified.  As a proselytizer for the superiority of analog playback THERE IS NO BETTER ADVOCATE ON THE F-ING PLANET than Michael Fremer.    

So I will continue to read and learn from MF's column. Feel free to join me. You'll learn something about music and equipment (but really only if you want to acknowledge that the world thankfully doesn't revolve around Linn Audio.) If he is not a perfect person,  I DON'T CARE.   Until he personally causes me direct harm or is under investigation for a heinous crime, I WILL continue defend him for what I learn from his writings and videos.
Please remember that I witnessed this behavior myself, and so for me it was firsthand. While I had heard that MF's behavior pattern was common and well known, I had not witnessed it before for myself, until then. You obviously have had no such experience, which leads you to the opinion that you have in your above post. The wammer you refer to may or may not have had first hand experience with this fellow, but clearly he must have heard the same things to make such a statement...or had a similar experience as myself!

 

myles

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Please remember that I witnessed this behavior myself, and so for me it was firsthand. While I had heard that MF's behavior pattern was common and well known, I had not witnessed it before for myself, until then. You obviously have had no such experience, which leads you to the opinion that you have in your above post. The wammer you refer to may or may not have had first hand experience with this fellow, but clearly he must have heard the same things to make such a statement...or had a similar experience as myself!
How did the representatives of Wally offend you, because you are clearly lumping them in with MF too. 

 
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John Hirsch

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Oct 9, 2018
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Sir Thomas has stated that Silly Putty leaves very little residue which is not the same as no residue. His new favorite is a watchmaker compound called Rub Off because it leaves no residue. He says that, "Silly Putty definitely left very little residue..." He writes that his new practice is to use Rub Off because it leaves no residue in concert with green paper. This is a great relief to audiophile insomniacs everywhere. It's almost 4 AM and now I feel I can finally go to sleep. Full post from Sir Thomas:

A couple of notes here. The owner of the store I work at, Overture Audio in Ann Arbor, MI, discovered Silly Putty at least a few decades ago, long before Zerodust and others. He reasoned that some putty type of material would grab the little particles off the diamond that we see under our high powered Wild Heerbrugg lighted stereo microscope that brushes don't completely remove. So he tried all kinds of things from modeling clay to caulking putty to Silly Putty and others. Of everything he tried Silly Putty left no residue and resulted in a gleaming stylus. I put this on a few forums a number of years ago and quite a few people have used it in various places.

One customer who had used Silly Putty tried Zerodust and brought it into us saying Silly Putty worked better. We never spent any real time trying the Zerodust. A while after I posted about the Silly Putty I read someone suggesting Bergeon Rodico 6033 watch putty so I bought some but thought it wasn't any better than Silly Putty. Then while I was looking for the Rodico online I bumped into a watchmaker's forum where the question had been asked of what to use to remove fingerprints from crystals. The questioner had tried Rodico, both types (this is where I found there was a 7033 in grey rather than 6033 green) and wasn't happy with the results. One of the members said the best thing for that was Rub Off, a dark blue putty I think originates in Germany. With this new information I decided to duplicate the tests the owner had done decades back. So I bought some Rub Off and some Rodico 7033 and put them up against Rodico 6033 and Silly Putty. Silly Putty definitely left very little residue and easily less than either Rodico (which were about the same) but the Rub Off was even a bit better.

So my suggestion has been Silly Putty works just fine as long as you make sure you get the right one. You have to stick with Original Silly Putty which is pinky orange. The glow in the dark and other colored versions are different and are to be avoided. But if you want the absolute cleanest stylus the Rub Off is a little better. It is also a bit stiffer so you do have to be careful with it.

I have seen a number of styli with built up gunk around that stylus that is hard to remove. Most of these are from people who don't clean their styli or who used some kind of liquid cleaner (obvious by a coating of some crystalline substance on the cantilever). I haven't seen any like this from customers using Silly Putty. The only thing that effectively removes it is Linn green paper. In my stylus cleaning I regularly use Rub Off interspersed with occasional use of green paper. Many customers do the same with Silly Putty and green paper. I have an old Discwasher SC-2 stylus brush that I use to get off fluff balls. It is also decent at getting gunk off but not as good as green paper. Unfortunately they haven't been made for some time and they should never be used with the liquid that came with them. But having tried a number of the other little stylus brushes I have found none of them even good at getting loose dust off.

Here's a link for the Rub Off:

https://www.esslinger.com/rub-off-compound-dark-blue/